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Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included)

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included)

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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 13:05 #22971
clive
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2789 posts 		Max: why are you so bothered about the signal numbers? It's my experience that (a) you don't actually use them that much in play, and (b) you soon learn where the significant ones are. The numbers tend to be in order from one end to the other; usually odd numbers are in the down direction and even in the up. Shunt signals have a separate numbering sequence, and so on.
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 13:08 #22972
clive
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2789 posts 		" said:

I could certainly contribute if it was .net but I am not prepared to learn Delphi (I think I am correct) as it will end up screwing my head up with my own work,
It's possible to develop a complete working simulation without knowing any Delphi. The small bit of code required can be done through cargo-cult programming. The rest is written in the data language.
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 13:10 #22973
Zoe
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254 posts 		" said:
This then defines a language in which individual simulations are written. The various developers write in this language and a compiler links it with the core code to produce the final simulation.

Is this simply parsed to Delphi and then compiled or does it go directly to a binary object file?
Last edited: 15/11/2011 at 13:11 by Zoe
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 13:27 #22977
clive
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2789 posts 		Translated to Delphi (not just parsed; there's a lot more goes on), as it happens, but the developer never sees the generated code.

I'm happy to demonstrate this to anyone at Derby.
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 15:27 #22982
headshot119
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4869 posts 		I wouldn't mind a look at Derby Clive is you don't mind me having a look.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 17:11 #22986
mfcooper
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707 posts 		" said:
It's possible to develop a complete working simulation without knowing any Delphi. The small bit of code required can be done through cargo-cult programming. The rest is written in the data language.
I can confirm this. I have been given permission to develop a couple of small SimSigs [don't ask which|! :-P ] and have no programming knowledge at all! SimSig's development software is very impressive and, once given a few pointers, it is a relatively easy piece of software to use :-)
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 17:45 #22988
Zoe
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254 posts 		" said:
once given a few pointers, it is a relatively easy piece of software to use

Not *this type of pointer though?
Last edited: 15/11/2011 at 17:46 by Zoe
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 18:22 #22993
Steamer
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3985 posts 		"If it ain't broken, don't fix it" sums this up in my opinion- why mess with something that works very well already? I appreciate the comment about screen space, but I (along with, I suspect, most users) have only a single monitor running at 1024x768 and get along fine- the arrow keys/mouse roller make navigating the sim very easy, and there are also the 'hot keys' provided on most scrollies.

Maxand, signal numbers are on the sim- just right click on the signal, providing you've unticked 'right click cancels route' in F3. Making them permentantly visible would, in my opinion, just add a lot of clutter to the sim that isn't needed, especially if you want to fit more track on one screen!
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 18:24 #22995
ralphjwchadkirk
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275 posts 		" said:
" said:
It's possible to develop a complete working simulation without knowing any Delphi. The small bit of code required can be done through cargo-cult programming. The rest is written in the data language.
I can confirm this. I have been given permission to develop a couple of small SimSigs [don't ask which|! :-P ] and have no programming knowledge at all! SimSig's development software is very impressive and, once given a few pointers, it is a relatively easy piece of software to use :-)
I'd like to create a SimSig version of Alton PSB on the Mid-Hants Railway. First heritage box, Single Line/AB, bit of shunting, GF's and quite simple to operate. I've even got all the data (was issued in the yellow peril - control tables etc).

Only problem is the timetables would be pretty boring!
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 19:16 #23000
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		Maybe for an experienced user but there are always beginners who make like a nice small quiet sim to practice on
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 19:27 #23004
ralphjwchadkirk
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275 posts 		" said:
Maybe for an experienced user but there are always beginners who make like a nice small quiet sim to practice on
True. It would certainly give a little experience of most things.
Last edited: 15/11/2011 at 19:27 by ralphjwchadkirk
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 19:29 #23005
jc92
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3690 posts 		i still like quiet relaxing sims to play on, doesnt all have to be hustle and bustle
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 15/11/2011 at 22:58 #23019
Forest Pines
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525 posts 		" said:

The ability to drag the screen sounds like an interesting idea; Geoff does the UI stuff, so I don't know how hard it is in Delphi. But I've added it to the wish list - if it ever gets done, it will be in the core code and will therefore automatically work in all future scrolly sims.
That definitely sounds like a useful idea. It does make me wish that three-button mice were more common, though, because I'd get annoyed when I clicked to drag and accidentally locked a point (I do that often enough accidentally when I'm using the laptop trackpad in any case).

One benefit of the UI being non-character-based would be the ability to have arbitrary pixmaps for each display element, rather than each being a font character. If you could do that - basically you'd be implementing something like the tilesets in games like Nethack or Angband, which also started out as character-based - then you could switch between "IECC-alike mode" and "domino panel mode" at will! Of course, what you would find is that your sim is rather less legible than it was before. Compare SimSig to simulators like the Signalsoft German ones which replicate a "panel" appearance. On those, you have to zoom in a long way to read some of the information, such as track numbers; and I find that at reasonable zoom levels it can be hard even to identify occupied tracks because of the small size of the simulated indicator lamps.
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 07:33 #23038
alvinhochun
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249 posts 		Wow it's only two days and I've got four pages! I don't know how to reply!

Well first to clarify, my "original" aim is to replicate the internal systems of SimSig as a port to C#, however I've got quite much problem doing it, so I moved to make a very simple fictional simulation. I even doubt it would replicate the operation of SimSig (IECC)!
But I guess (if I have the original SimSig source code,) it would not be "too" difficult to write SimSig by C#, as SimSig itself is also written by mankind. (If not, what could it be? :blink: )

I understand the fact that people who create a "sim" can have totally no knowledge on programming, this shows how complicated the internal system of SimSig is!

There are a few possible things to do:
1) Make a simple, boring and unreal simulation.
2) Retrieve data from openBVE and show information of the trains in forms of a signalling diagram.
3) Connect to a real train model setup.

By the way, I would really want to know how many of you have a complete model train setup and how you control the points.

P.S. In the future I may get to use FillPolygon instead of rendering fonts on those routes.
Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 07:48 by alvinhochun
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 10:30 #23046
ralphjwchadkirk
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275 posts 		I'm a little uncomfortable with the official SimSig forum being used as a platform for launching a copycat rival...
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The following users said thank you: andyb0607, ipswich
Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 13:51 #23051
Zoe
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254 posts 		" said:
But I guess (if I have the original SimSig source code,) it would not be "too" difficult to write SimSig by C#, as SimSig itself is also written by mankind.

There isn't any need for SimSig to be written in C# though. The current system works well.
Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 13:54 by Zoe
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" include 16/11/2011 at 13:55 #23053
ipswich
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247 posts 		the current system is fine there are no problems why change it?
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 14:08 #23056
clive
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2789 posts 		" said:

Well first to clarify, my "original" aim is to replicate the internal systems of SimSig as a port to C#,
[...]
But I guess it would not be "too" difficult to write SimSig by C#,
It might not be "too" difficult, but you've got a long task ahead of you. Let's just say you're trying to reverse engineer well over 20MB of code (the SimSig core code, with no simulation data, is about as complicated as the firmware in the ROM of the chips that my employer develops; the latter has a team of 70 maintaining it).
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 16:59 #23060
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		" said:

I understand the fact that people who create a "sim" can have totally no knowledge on programming, this shows how complicated the internal system of SimSig is!

This is true but being able to program certainly helps. I've been using Delphi since it came out in the early 90's so its an old friend to me (this was well before I knew anything about SimSig)!

" said:

By the way, I would really want to know how many of you have a complete model train setup and how you control the points.

Not a complete one but on its way. I plan on using a computer control on it though the exact parameters of how this will be done and how much it will control are yet to be defined. The layout is DCC to start with which definitely makes interfacing a lot easier. You might want to look into JMRI as a start though.
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 18:08 #23066
jc92
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3690 posts 		my layouts DCC n gauge. all train control is by DCC, control of points and signals (including interlocking) is analogue through point motors and a bank of relays.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 18:52 #23071
headshot119
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4869 posts 		When I get it sorted my layout will be DCC train control. And SSI signals and points controlled via an NX style panel.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 18:52 by headshot119
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 18:58 #23073
jc92
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3690 posts 		what system/ method are you using for TCs
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 19:02 #23074
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Hopefully Current detection, though I may have to look at some sort of frequency based system.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 20:17 #23085
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		" said:

By the way, I would really want to know how many of you have a complete model train setup and how you control the points.
Observations from model railway exhibitions I've been to in the past are that many of the layouts have a simplified track layout on a board area (probably about the width/length of 1 netbook and the depth of maybe 3 netbooks stacked) with various contacts over the points and they take a pen-like thing to the contacts and as it's got a conductive tip, when it touches the contact it switches the points. I also happened to obverse another layout and saw a laptop with some Hornby software on it called "RailMaster"(?) - I'm not sure what it does but I noted that it seemed to show the track layout so may have had something to do with the signals or pointwork.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 20:30 by UKTrainMan
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Re: Getting SimSig to .NET (SimSig "maker" included) 16/11/2011 at 20:22 #23087
jc92
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3690 posts 		railmaster controls all trains and accessories via a USB port but its bloody expensive (all points sigs etc have to have decoders).

more common like you say is a mimic panel with toggle switches or probe and stud contacts.

or if your me, a lever frame and set of block intruments
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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