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| Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 01:13 #23025 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I am aware that SimSig's policy is to model UK localities as closely as possible, which is all to the good. As an Aussie, I wonder whether at some time in the future I might be able to create an Australian-based sim, selecting from SimSig those features which apply to Australian conditions. It might not be 100% prototypical but, using basic elements of signalling, could provide hours of enjoyment for those of us down under. I have read "Can I make my own SimSig?" in the Wiki FAQ but would be interested in comments from the developers. More information on Australian railway signalling here. Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 02:25 #23029 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
Maxand, If you read the wiki then you already know the answer. Creating a sim is not a simple process nor is it a quick process. It takes thousands of hours of research and development all of which comes out of your spare time and if you are lucky, someone might buy you a beer at a meet to say thanks (which is always welcome, hint, hint). You need to have a thorough understanding of signalling practices and also have very in-depth data regarding the area you are simulating. Its just not something everyone can do or wants to do. Can it be learnt? Yes, but developers tend to use what little time they have developing sims and don't have much time to train anyone. Just to give you an idea, South Humberside was started in 2006 and is still not complete some five years later! More specifically, another un-named sim currently under development had over 1000 hours put in on it just to organize the track circuits alone!! Up to now the focus has been on doing sims for UK locations mainly as Simsig replicates British practice. There is nothing to prevent creating non-UK sims. The main issue is a lack of the relevant data. There have been discussions, even among the developers, about doing locations outside the UK such as the US for example. However, with still plenty of UK locations left to cover, and the time it takes to put a sim together, its unlikely anything non-UK based will be produced at least in the near future. Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 03:55 #23032 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks Lardybiker. I had been wondering whether the developers' policy was to confine all sims on the SimSig site to UK localities, but your comments indicate this is not the case. I'd just be happy to look at the code for some existing sims and experiment to put together a skeleton map and timetable for, say, one of the Melbourne or Sydney lines. Nothing too complicated that can't be added to later. Even though Delphi isn't my favourite language it's really just Object Pascal with a few more bells and whistles. Unless it's poorly commented, the code should be self-evident. A simple timetable would get it going. Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 03:56 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 06:56 #23035 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
As I think Clive indicated elsewhere Delhi is largely irrelevant to the writing the data for a sim. It's seems to be a widely held view that all that's required is a skeleton map and a timetable and we have to disabuse people of this at regular intervals. What is required is a list of Track circuits- length, shape (e.g. number of points and direction of turnout) and connection to the next TC, speed with changes at given lengths also gradient)- signals and their location on a TC E.g scale detailed map. Then we need sequencing and interlocking information. Any local instructions/ information etc. That's all I can think of at the moment but that is all needed before you can begin to press a computer key. A timetable comes one or two years later and photograph of the actual panel layout is of infinitely more use than a skeleton map. If you can do all that (plus refine the information as and when questions arise) then there is no particular reason why a Sim of your chosen area could not, one day, be done if someone were so minded to do it. I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 08:40 #23041 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks Peter for the extra info. It shouldn't be too difficult to compile the Delphi source code to turn it into an exe. Are we allowed to do this? Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 12:24 #23050 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
It should be extremely easy to compile the Delphi source code. I mean, how difficult it would be to click the "Compile" button? The situation is that we don't have it. As SimSig being a closed-source program, I don't think people outside will have the permission to get it. By the way, I really wish SimSig will expand overseas, but only to systems that uses British signalling. It would be too much to continue to other systems. Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 12:25 by alvinhochun Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 14:02 #23054 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:What is required is a list of Track circuits- length, shape (e.g. number of points and direction of turnout) and connection to the next TC, speed with changes at given lengths also gradient)- signals and their location on a TC E.g scale detailed map.To add to Peter's list you also need to know the signalling principles and rules of the country being simulated. What aspects do the signals show, is it speed signalling or route signalling, how are routes set, One Switch or NX? Do they have overlaps, shunt routes, call ons, swinging overlaps, time of operation locking, warner routes, TRTS or even Stacking etc etc. The screens and fonts in SimSig are a highly accurate representation of a UK IECC screen. If you use a paged sim you'd struggle to tell the difference between a SimSig screen shot and an overview screen of an IECC. I personally know absolutely nothing about foreign signalling practices and I'm sure this goes for a lot of the developers. Geoff has a deep knowledge of UK signalling principles and has therefore managed to produce core code that can be used by developers to accurately simulate UK signalling. Many of the testers and developers like myself are Network Rail signalling experts and have access to all of the UK railway standards should we need to refer to any manuals. I'm afraid this level of knowledge and resource does not extend to other countries signalling systems. Hope this helps FF Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 14:03 #23055 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Quote:No, SimSig's policy is that all simulations should be as accurate as practical. Quote: Nothing to do with nationality, but we don't let just anybody become a developer. You need to convince Geoff and I (mostly Geoff) that you are capable of being one. From your present posts, you're a long way away from that. I see others have made more comments to this end; you should pay attention to them and the many previous threads along this line. There's no reason in principle why an Australian sim shouldn't be done. But we'd need a lot of information. Note that "signalling", despite what some Wikipedia authors think, is far more than just knowing what the different coloured lights mean. Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 17:18 #23061 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
" said:Thanks Peter for the extra info.There is virtually no Delphi programming required to create a working sim. Developers have to detail all the parts required in the sim, none of which requires ANY programming what so ever. Signals, points and track circuits and the obvious visible parts. However, like an iceburg, there is a lot more under the water you can't see. It takes 1000's of hours to do all this. Even a small sim would take weeks, even months of effort. Its not a simple case of throwing a few lines of Delphi together and voila, you create a sim. Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 17:23 by Lardybiker Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 18:10 #23067 | |
jc92
3690 posts 
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" said:is there any chance of geoff or one of the devs doing a little demonstration of this at derby? more than anything im curious about what actually happens behind the scenes to make things work "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 18:15 #23069 | |
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jc92
3690 posts
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also an afterthought- if any non UK location was to be simmed, surely ireland would be a prime candidate due to the close similarity of practice and systems?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Official attitude to non-UK sims? 16/11/2011 at 19:50 #23082 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
I'd be happy to do a demonstration at Derby, or at least show people what sim data looks like (I'm not going to try to write a new sim with people watching!). You just need to keep my voice lubricated. Log in to reply |