Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding

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Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 21:18 #23313
maxand
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1637 posts 		When K225-2 stops at Harrow Siding and reverses, it takes on the new headcode K225-3. However, after interposing the new headcode its timetable remains that of K225-2 when I click the train to display it. Even ensuring the final -3 is included in the headcode does not fix this.

I also notice the same problem with K246-2 changing to K246-3.

Is this a bug?
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 21:23 #23314
Steamer
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3997 posts 		What's happened is that K225-2 hasn't formed K225-3 yet- if you have a look in the F2 list, you will still see K225-2. When K225-2 changes to K225-3, the timetable will display correctly. Not sure as to why the timetable won't display correctly before the train changes identity though.
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Last edited: 19/11/2011 at 21:59 by Steamer
Reason: Clarity
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 21:54 #23315
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		The route into the reversing siding, despite being a pretty much straight ahead route, is a lower speed than the main route taken by London Overground trains to Watford Junction so it may be a short while until the train has come to a stop and formed the next service. The main route is 30mph upon departure, but I'd imagine the route into the reversing siding is as low as 10mph, or 15mph at most.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 21:56 #23316
postal
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5269 posts 		You'll be able to tell from F2 if the first train is still moving.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 21:57 #23317
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks to all, I'll try that.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 19/11/2011 at 22:53 #23320
Forest Pines
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525 posts 		It's been the case in all the sims for some years that "Show Timetable" doesn't always show the timetable for the exact entered headcode in a particular set of circumstances. I don't know if it's documented anywhere - I had a quick look on the wiki and couldn't see it - but this is what I've seen happening.

Basically, if the headcode entered and displayed is for a train that isn't currently "in" the sim, but there is a train in the sim whose first four characters match, you get the timetable for that train displayed instead of the one described. So if you've changed the headcode from K225-2 to K225-3 before the train has stopped and taken on the new identity, Show Timetable will still give you the K225-2 timetable. This wouldn't happen if the first four characters of the headcodes differed - eg if you had 5K01 changing to 2K01.

You can argue that this makes playing Wembley Sub a bit easier. All the London Transport trains tend to follow that pattern of headcode changes, because in real life LT number their train diagrams - the whole series of moves for a single train throughout the day - rather than individual services. (on at least some lines and at some periods, incidentally, the diagram numbers were in octal for compatibility with early automated signalling equipment). Because of this feature of the sim, you don't actually have to enter the new headcode when the train changes from K225-2 to K225-3. Although the sim won't update the headcode for you, it will still show you the correct timetable for the train that's in the sim, not the one which originally entered, so long as the headcode of the train in the sim still starts with the same 4 characters as the one which originally entered.

(you could also argue that it's a misfeature, because it makes it harder to see the timetables "ahead of time". I find this feature a right nuisance on some sims and some timetables)
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 20/11/2011 at 07:22 #23323
mfcooper
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707 posts 		It's a limitation based on the 4-character visible train description compared to the 6-character actual description. The sim sees K225 in the Train Describer Berth and knows there is a K225-2 in the sim area, so that timetable is displayed. When the train actually stops in the siding, the sim still sees K225 but now knows that K225-3 is in the area, so this timetable is now displayed.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 21/11/2011 at 01:35 #23387
maxand
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1637 posts 		Forest Pines wrote

Quote:
Because of this feature of the sim, you don't actually have to enter the new headcode when the train changes from K225-2 to K225-3. Although the sim won't update the headcode for you, it will still show you the correct timetable for the train that's in the sim, not the one which originally entered, so long as the headcode of the train in the sim still starts with the same 4 characters as the one which originally entered.
mfcooper wrote
Quote:
When the train actually stops in the siding, the sim still sees K225 but now knows that K225-3 is in the area, so this timetable is now displayed.
Unhappily this doesn't seem to work here.



K231 has stopped but clicking its headcode doesn't update its TT from K231-2 to K231-3, although in other sims I've played with the same first four digits in the headcode, updating has occurred automatically, AFAIK. Is there any way of forcing the update to take place, just for the sim?

Luckily I know by now that trains with a K headcode always seem end up entering the LU via Queens Park, so I don't really need to look at the TT. However, there may be an exception to this further down the TT.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 21/11/2011 at 01:40 #23388
jc92
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3701 posts 		train k231-2 doesnt form k231-3 until it stops at harrow and wealdstone P2 having left the siding. the timetable clearly indicates this. take another look and see if, having allowed the train to reverse and enter P2, the timetable updates to K231-3
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 21/11/2011 at 04:14 #23390
maxand
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1637 posts 		jc92, you're absolutely right. It needs to have stopped at Harrow & Wealdstone Platform 2 before the update can occur. Thanks, I should have read K231-2's TT more carefully. Problem solved.
Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 04:17 by maxand
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 05/12/2011 at 06:29 #24466
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		Going back to what I mentioned above in Post #3, having just been looking at this page on the truly excellent RailSigns.co.uk website I noticed the photo displayed on this page which shows you an old photo from 2002 of the actual Down platform (Platform 1) starter signal at Harrow & Wealdstone with the associated shunt signal ("Position light signal"for the route into the turnback.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 05/12/2011 at 08:18 #24470
maxand
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1637 posts 		Great pic UKTM!

Here it is in the sim, signal no. 55 (full title WS55)


Really brings this sim to life.

The two lines (main and siding) appear to form more of a wye than a straight-through/diverging relationship, however I guess it makes sense that the main line be designated the straight-through track and the siding line the diverging track.

Also a big thanks for your link to Railway Signs and Signals of Great Britain.
Last edited: 05/12/2011 at 08:34 by maxand
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Re: Train TTs aren't updated at Harrow Siding 05/12/2011 at 11:47 #24473
kbarber
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1764 posts 		In the old days there were two turnback sidings at Harrow. There are some nice pictures (including the predecessor to WS55) here http://www.signalbox.org/gallery/lm/harrow2.php John Hinson, whose site that is, was a relief signalman on the London Midland Region of BR from the mid-1970s on and the site is a veritable gold mine of signalling information, mostly concerned with absolute block & mechanical signalling (John has a distinct aversion to panels!)
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