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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 13/02/2011 at 17:56 #2427 | |
Right Away
71 posts |
Happened to be waiting at Bedford station yesterday evening and noticed what I thought was SimSig on a screen near a member of staff by the ticket barriers! The member of staff was very friendly and gave me a brief demo. He described it as the “P2 system” and he said that so long as he knew the head code of a train he could find its location anywhere in the country! I think that might have been a slight exaggeration. So far as I could see he had a simple ‘read only’ view of the West Hampstead signallers’ screens. The signals were displayed as hollow circles without any colour, set routes did not appear and neither did red occupied track circuits. But the TDs did move along the routes, or roads as he called them, over time. Anybody know anything more about the “P2 System”? Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 13/02/2011 at 17:56 #13631 | |
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Right Away
71 posts |
Happened to be waiting at Bedford station yesterday evening and noticed what I thought was SimSig on a screen near a member of staff by the ticket barriers! The member of staff was very friendly and gave me a brief demo. He described it as the “P2 system” and he said that so long as he knew the head code of a train he could find its location anywhere in the country! I think that might have been a slight exaggeration. So far as I could see he had a simple ‘read only’ view of the West Hampstead signallers’ screens. The signals were displayed as hollow circles without any colour, set routes did not appear and neither did red occupied track circuits. But the TDs did move along the routes, or roads as he called them, over time. Anybody know anything more about the “P2 System”? Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 13/02/2011 at 18:59 #13634 | |
John
884 posts |
There's a bit about it here
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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 14/02/2011 at 15:32 #13665 | |
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taffy
28 posts |
Just to add a bit more info, if the section being displayed from a Solid Sate Interlocking signal panel, then you will see either red or green aspect depending upon whether the signal on the ground is displaying a red or a proceed aspect (green, yellow, double yellow). this type of display can be selected in the option menu of SimSig as well. Also you will see text displaying the route selected If the section being displayed is Route Relay Interlocking (old power box signal panel), then only the route selected will be display in text(eg UM - Up Main) The system is fairly crude, however, it should be remembered that this is for infomation purposes only and not for interaction. One other thing to add, you can also replay a trains movements from several days in the past Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 15/02/2011 at 13:03 #13686 | |
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Right Away
71 posts |
Thank you John and taffy. Is P2 a cheaper and/or older alternative to CCF (Control Centre for the Future)?
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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 15/02/2011 at 17:49 #13688 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
taffy said:Indeed where as Peterborough, Cambridge and Kings Cross PSBs only show the available routes, Paddington for example will show the set route for any train displaying all the signals like CCF does. Right Away said: Yes, CCF costs in the region of a few thousand £££s and is not cheap hence being restricted to train delay and train operations while P2 is much less expensive and is ideal for frontline staff that is of course until it crashes! Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 15/02/2011 at 22:27 #13691 | |
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John
884 posts |
Our office has access to both applications, but P2 is only ever used as a back-up on those rare occasions when CCF crashes. P2 is just not reliable enough, and has an annoying habit of freezing, which is why it's not uncommon for both Southern and Southeastern controls (who - despite working in the same room as NR controllers - aren't even allowed access to it, it seems) to call up and ask why such and such a train hasn't yet departed yet, when, in actual fact, it left on time. The "Scroll" option on P2 is quite a handy tool, though, and is useful for keeping a record of late departures. Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 15/02/2011 at 23:27 #13692 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
I wouldn't have thought you get train position information when the train is in mechanical signal box areas or does the signalman manually enter the information?
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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 01:47 #13694 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Zoe said:I wouldn't have thought you get train position information when the train is in mechanical signal box areas or does the signalman manually enter the information?Sorry but who mentioned anything about mechanical signalling? Anyway, I don't think it would be hard to keep track of a train in an area signalled by mechanical signalling by setting up simple track circuits where needed or even using something such as treadles along the line to detect a train passing that point. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 01:54 #13695 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
UKTrainMan said:
The original post said that a train could be located anywhere in the country, if this was the case then it would mechanical signalling areas. It should be noted that in many of these ares there are no trains describers so something would have to keep track of what train is passing over the track circuits unless of course the signalman manually entered the information. Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 06:44 #13697 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Zoe said:UKTrainMan said:Good point, I'm trying to remember whether there was one of these monitors in any of the mechanical boxes I've been in and I can't. But it must be the case that the signalman knows the TD as some boxes at the fringe of panels have to insert the TD to the panel approach. Is it done by GPS? I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 10:54 #13700 | |
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Right Away
71 posts |
Zoe, yes, the member of staff at the station did claim he could locate any train anywhere in the country with his P2 system. It did occur to me that that might not be the case but I could not question him further as a train had just arrived and he had to go off and check tickets. I read somewhere that in remote areas with little in the way of conventional train tracking equipment such as TCs then sometimes train mass detectors are used at stations as a relatively cheap method of determining the actual time of arrival and departure of trains and feeding this back to the systems. Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 11:55 #13701 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
When on a visit to York IECC, the guy showing us round the Control room said the system you are describing only works on areas controlled by TCB. So where mechanical signalling is used, they cannot detect where the exact trains are without ringing up the Signalman to ask if such and such has passed yet.
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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 16:17 #13702 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts 
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The TRUST system should still be able to approximately locate trains in AB areas, albeit relying on manual input by Signalmen at designated locations. Whether there's any link to the P2/CCF systems, I don't know. The problem with updating the latter with isolated track circuits or treadles only is that it wouldn't reliably account for trains turning back or being recessed en-route through an AB area without quite a bit of manual intervention, bearing in mind that the running lines aren't continually track circuited through station limits at some locations. Log in to reply |
| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 16/02/2011 at 17:29 #13703 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
P2 can't go anywhere in the country. Where you can view is on an install basis - for example, SET Train Planning have P2, and they can only view the Kent region. Similarly, if you're at Waterloo it's likely you will only be able to view the Wessex region (and perhaps the Western...).
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| P2 System read-only display of signallers’ screens for station staff 21/02/2011 at 13:33 #13727 | |
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daza7789
59 posts |
I have never seen nor used P2, however use CCF on a regualar basis, most TOC/NR control centres and signal boxes have access to CCF, though no all signal boxes, as mentioned the licence is £1000s per location. In mechanical areas where TDs are used there is normally a feed to the distributor that updates CCF and TRUST. if there is no TD used by the boxes in the area then there wont be any headcodes shown. Also CCF/P2/Trust have no direct interface with track circuits/Treadles, axle counters etc. these systems are fed purely from the train describers only. I am not sure about P2 not being able to go anywhere in the country, but CCF can. you will be logged in under what ever reigion you work on, ie Anglia where I am at the moment. You can have upto 3 displays on that region. each map links to the next etc right across the region. you can also get the 'off area' regions up. I used to run the anglea map on my local area (willesden HL) and then have up the off area maps for the western, midlands, southern and LNE regions (Handy to see what is comin on the NLL where it fringes with all regions! Log in to reply |