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Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 02:56 #26303 | |
maxand
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No, I don't think we have got so off-topic that it needs to be moved. When I said "Perhaps this requires just a bit more effort on the part of the programmer" I did not mean to imply that those who write the code for SimSig are lazy, only that they and about 99% of most other programmers are so concerned with making the innards run correctly that they can't see as much need to invest resources in improving the interface as those on the outside can. Just as a great artist makes the difficult seem easy, the interface of a well-designed application should appear as transparent as possible, i.e., should not get between the user and the application. IMO SimSig rates fairly well in ease of use during actual play. Like many if not most applications, there are some glaring irritations; discussing them is one of the purposes of this forum. Long before any user testing, the developer has usually thought long and hard about what he considers the best interface design, so is reluctant to change it once he has begun implementing it. He is often blind to the way others approach his application. No kidding - ask any usability expert, be it for an application, web page or other tool. The further away a developer is from the end-user "coalface", the harder it usually is to make him see the blind spots in his design, and the less rewarding to fix them. Happily our developers are willing to listen to what bothers us the most and change what they can. We have seen a gradual transition from panel view to scrolly sims, addition of sticky notes, etc., all welcome additions. Once they see a need to improve a feature, it usually gets done, thank god. I don't think I'm pushing my own barrow unduly when suggesting these improvements; I like to let them speak for themselves. Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 03:53 by maxand Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 03:13 #26305 | |
AndyG
![]() 1842 posts |
" said:Didn't know about the A key till you mentioned it. Now there's a handy shortcut.But it's documented. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 03:15 #26306 | |
maxand
![]() 1637 posts |
To Barry: Quote: If you were really interest(ed), you would not be asking all these questions. You mean I should shut up, continue playing the game and suffer quietly? :) Quote: The keys I quoted are the only keys in use in the latest sim EUSTON. Maybe you should have stated that earlier. Quote: F3 to adjust speeds. That's what I just said - it's the only practical option. Quote: All saved automatically in Simsig. (F3) Since you are familiar with Train Dispatcher, I was referring particularly to confirmation of Add Stack Command, which doesn't apply to SimSig. When you say "all saved automatically..F3" I presume you mean that any changes made in Options are saved automatically. I don't dispute that, but that's not the issue I referred to, which is lack of confirmation when making changes outside the Options window, i.e., within the View window. I think you missed my point here. On the point of Add Stack Command: Every time one stacks a command on top of another, a popup message appears which has to be cancelled by the user (OK/Cancel). This becomes quite unnecessary and irritating after a while. Popup messages are desirable, but should come with the option to self-close after a specified interval, or not appear at all, to help users who need more speed. No user should feel locked into one option only. It's worth spending the extra time and programming effort to create thoughtful, informative, user-friendly messages like this, particularly in an application like SimSig where speed of execution is not an issue. Quote: You must be running the sims greater than 2:1 mode. Detecting signals in normal mode is not going to affect your game one iota. FYI I seldom run faster than 1:1-1:1.5 as it detracts from the "realism" you guys are on about so much. On the other hand, when there is a glut of trains with angry drivers waiting at reds, every minute spent frantically dragging a PDF signal map sideways looking for that blasted signal, siding or crossing wastes time, so the only remedy is to pause, not stay in Normal (1:1) mode or go slower. That's why I said it's a pity the signal context menu can't be displayed when the Exeter sim is paused, which was the original purpose of this thread. Quote: Pause mode works fine in Euston. Glad to hear it. Haven't been game to tackle it yet. AndyG: Quote: But it's documented. Do you absorb everything you read the first time you see it? ![]() Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 03:35 by maxand Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 03:45 #26308 | |
BarryM
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Should be moved out of Exeter. " said: To Barry:This is where you should have started. "1 page at a time". Bristol is not the best to start with. /lol. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 03:49 by BarryM Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 03:50 #26310 | |
maxand
![]() 1637 posts |
Thank you for your helpful suggestions.
Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 08:50 #26316 | |
GB
![]() 64 posts |
" said:If thats the case then shame on the community. Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 09:11 #26319 | |
BarryM
![]() 2158 posts |
" said:" said:The majority are now the minority in relation to the "Pause Mode". In the new Euston sim, you can do a number of features in this mode.If thats the case then shame on the community. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 09:49 #26320 | |
Peter Bennet
![]() 5377 posts |
" said:I thought noting "E-Exeter" rather than "e-Exeter" was the clue but in any event I agree that making the point clear in the HotKeys instructions is helpful. I'm not convinced it's then necessary to then replicate every thing again in each Sim manual, the point of the hyperlinks is to avoid that. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 09:50 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 12:15 #26330 | |
Steamer
![]() 3958 posts |
" said:On the point of Add Stack Command: Every time one stacks a command on top of another, a popup message appears which has to be cancelled by the user (OK/Cancel). This becomes quite unnecessary and irritating after a while. Popup messages are desirable, but should come with the option to self-close after a specified interval, or not appear at all, to help users who need more speed. No user should feel locked into one option only. F3 gives you the option to select when you get a pop-up for every catagory of message, so you aren't locked in to one option. Regardless of this, at the end of the day it is only clicking something on screen! It's not a major effort! In fact, this is a good feature since it forces you to read what is being dispalayed, which will always be helpful. If it's something like "automatic working not available for this route", this is clearly necessary information, and to stop it popping up, you learn not to try and engage auto mode for that signal. " said: FYI I seldom run faster than 1:1-1:1.5 as it detracts from the "realism" you guys are on about so much. On the other hand, when there is a glut of trains with angry drivers waiting at reds, every minute spent frantically dragging a PDF signal map sideways looking for that blasted signal, siding or crossing wastes time, so the only remedy is to pause, not stay in Normal (1:1) mode or go slower. You don't really need to use the map to find a signal- if the train is waiting at a signal, it will give you it's headcode, which will, of course, be dislayed clearly on the screen. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 12:24 #26332 | |
Stephen Fulcher
![]() 2055 posts |
" said:" said:Another possibility is when a phone call is recieved, instead of being from "Driver 2R43", perhaps it could be from "Signal Post Telephone SY8", or a combination of both "Driver 2R43 (SY8 Signal)"On the point of Add Stack Command: Every time one stacks a command on top of another, a popup message appears which has to be cancelled by the user (OK/Cancel). This becomes quite unnecessary and irritating after a while. Popup messages are desirable, but should come with the option to self-close after a specified interval, or not appear at all, to help users who need more speed. No user should feel locked into one option only. Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 12:25 by Stephen Fulcher Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 13:58 #26335 | |
kbarber
![]() 1723 posts |
" said:
I think that would be a good idea. When I was in the box an incoming call from a driver showed the signal number (only) - the old relay- & uniselector-based systems didn't know what trains were at what signals (& trying to get them to display that sort of information from the train describer would've been just too much complication to consider). But of course the driver would identify his train immediately, so that is the information the bobby would've had. Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 19:01 #26350 | |
BarryM
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" said:" said:Am I missing something? This information is already supplied. The head of the message shows the trains TD, Reading the message states the signal ID the train is standing at. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 28/12/2011 at 19:01 by BarryM Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 28/12/2011 at 23:21 #26373 | |
Stephen Fulcher
![]() 2055 posts |
Sort of. In reality, the concentrator for the signal post telephones in all signal boxes show the location of the phone (ie SY8 Signal) and not the identity of the train (ie 2R43). Although in SimSig the message box shows where the train is standing, this is the opposite way round to reality. In the infamous conversation involving 2R43 at SY8, the Signaller at Saltley South Top Panel would have had SY8 illuminated on his concentrator and, although he would have had a fairly good idea who was phoning based upon his TD indications, would have only known for certain that it was 2R43 that was calling when the driver stated "Driver 2R43 standing at Sierra Yankee number 8" Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 12:29 #26389 | |
maxand
![]() 1637 posts |
Steamer wrote in post #34: Quote: F3 gives you the option to select when you get a pop-up for every catagory of message, so you aren't locked in to one option. Thanks for the suggestion. Since there are three ways of finding which signal a train is at, how many of you guys actually do use popups, how many rely on a telephone call (probably the most realistic approach) and how many rely on the Train List? Steamer also wrote: Quote: You don't really need to use the map to find a signal- if the train is waiting at a signal, it will give you it's headcode, which will, of course, be dislayed clearly on the screen. That's if the train happens to be on that part of the area that's currently displayed on your screen. If it's offscreen, you need to find it in a hurry. Here's where an Overview window large enough to display headcodes would be really useful, as opposed to the tiny one we have now. For me the method that seems to work fastest is to use Curr/Prev Location to narrow the search area. I think Josie suggested this in a recent post. One disappointing thing about Telephone calls is that there's no automatic way to save their content, short of highlighting them, copying and pasting them to a text file or maybe sticky note. On the other hand, my responses (which I do not need to save) are automatically displayed in the Messages box. Is there any reason for this or would it be a valid feature request to ask that both be displayed in the Messages box? E.g., Scrolling down the Messages box, one would see: [Train ID] waiting at signal 670 Response to [Train ID]: Wait 5 minutes before phoning back Then we would have the signal number displayed right in front of us without having to open the Train List, look up a map, or regretting we forgot to write it down before responding to the message. This might require making the Messages Box slightly larger, but it might mean we could close the Train List (for those who use it) and rely purely on the Messages Box. It bothers me that SimSig seems to lack any way of automatically storing older messages. I'd expect that in real life these messages would be kept somehow, blue-tacked to the main panel, or pushed onto a spike of earlier messages, etc. Although handy to have, there are two problems with the Train List: 1) It's impossible to sort it by date of status message, which is the way the Messages window displays them. This should be an option, set by clicking the column header. 2) Every time I bring it up it fills two thirds of my screen horizontally, half of it with unwanted information about "Can pass sig | Non stop | Power | Description". Who cares whether it's pulled by an emu or an ostrich? I always narrow the window to cut this stuff out, but it keeps springing back to its full size each time I reopen it* (yes, I also minimize it or drag it so its bottom is offscreen, each wasting time). A window that big needs to remember its last size, which this one clearly doesn't. Should be set and forget. (added) *after closing, not minimising, it. (added) Even better, offer the user a choice as to which columns should be displayed here. I'd clearly like to dispense with the Train List and make simming more realistic, but this would depend on using another method to signal the driver (as discussed in another thread elsewhere) and on making the Messages box display both sides of the message, sorted by time of response - as it does now. Last edited: 29/12/2011 at 12:55 by maxand Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:07 #26392 | |
Steamer
![]() 3958 posts |
" said:That's if the train happens to be on that part of the area that's currently displayed on your screen. If it's offscreen, you need to find it in a hurry. Here's where an Overview window large enough to display headcodes would be really useful, as opposed to the tiny one we have now. My point being that even so, I find it's quicker to find the headcode than to find the signal number on a seperate document, then find that signal on the main view. One concern I have with a larger overview is that if it is expanded to a size at which headcodes can be read, it won't be that much smaller than the main view itself, at which point it would cease to become an overview. " said: Who cares whether it's being pulled by an emu or an ostrich? You've not played North London Line yet, have you? Your description of some of the information as 'unwanted' sounds like what Postal was getting at- just becase you don't use it doesn't mean others don't. " said: This might require making the Messages Box slightly larger, but it might mean we could close the Train List (for those who use it) and rely purely on the Messages Box. It bothers me that SimSig seems to lack any way of automatically storing older messages. I'd expect that in real life these messages would be kept somehow, blue-tacked to the main panel, or pushed onto a spike of earlier messages, etc.In real life, I suspect telephone messages in large signalboxes are recorded automatically, although I think the tape would only be played back in the event of an accident. They might stick notes onto the panel, as you've suggested- SimSig already includes the 'sticky notes' feature. Anything that appears in the messages box stays there until you close the Sim down, unless you manually delete them. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 29/12/2011 at 13:12 by AndyG Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:18 #26393 | |
TimTamToe
![]() 658 posts |
" said:Slow the sim down to just below 1:1 and give yourself more time. That way you will learn that 1AXX is between X and Y and takes route Z for example then you know which area it will be in and you won't be in a panic when a driver calls in, as you will know where he is going. As I have said before and so has UKTM scan across the sim from left to right then repeat and you will have far fewer trains calling you at red. have you actually tried this yet? " said: This information: Power and description is of importance and I suggest it would help improve your experience of SimSig if you paid attention to it as it may well reduce some of the problems you seem to have. Power - important in for example Kings Cross, Oxted and Saltey to name but a few. You don't won't to be sending a DC or AC (electric) train on to unelectrified tracks. Description - Will give you the destination of the train from which you will be able to tell where the train is likely to be routed as generally all 1AXX will follow the same route etc try and follow the tips myself and others have been giving you and start on smaller sims and while you learn the areas reduce the speed. This will help you immensely. All of us have to learn an area to get the most out of a SimSig simulation, there is no easy instant way of doing so, it just requires patience and tea but the rewards are tremendous once you do Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:34 #26394 | |
AndyG
![]() 1842 posts |
If you hover the cursor over a TD in the overview, the TD will be displayed in the title bar and also by the cursor. The technique I use to reduce 'phone calls is to scroll across the simulation, checking that each train in turn has at least a proceed aspect, ideally green, and watching the message window for trains entering the area. When you reach the other end of the view, jump back to the start and repeat. If you can keep the trains moving, you don't get any calls from red signals. With level crossings, I can set a barrier lowering on one pass, and then clear/set the route on the next scroll by. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:42 #26395 | |
maxand
![]() 1637 posts |
Thanks for your suggestions. Haven't played the sims TimTamToe mentioned, so haven't needed the extra info on Power, etc. (yet!). AndyG Quote: If you hover the cursor over a TD in the overview, the TD will be displayed in the title bar and also by the cursor.Thanks - forgot about that tooltip. Still, it's difficult to see the red stripe sometimes. Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:43 #26396 | |
Peter Bennet
![]() 5377 posts |
" said:Or you can open another view and concentrate it down to a small square held "on top" where you can control the LX without having to scroll back and forward. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 13:56 #26397 | |
postal
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I wonder if the problem is that people are over-loading themselves with information just because the information is available. Whichever sim I am running, my default setting is 3 windows (Main View, Main Control Panel and Message Box) The Main View is maximised; the message box is narrowed to be no wider than the Main Control Panel and where possible the MCP moved so that it overlaps the top bar of the message box. This minimises the real estate which is not devoted to the main business of the day. I only open other windows (like F2) when I absolutely have to and close them as soon as I have done. With a very busy sim like Saltley I may have to open F2 about once every 10 minutes or so (to do things like checking the status of a train changing crew at Landor Street or to find a train waiting at a red signal if I can't remember where it is when I get the phone call). Apart from that, all of the information required to get on with running the sim is available on the Main View and Message Box. Perhaps the trick is to spend a bit of time making sure that the key locations and choke points are firmly fixed in your memory so that you can solve your problems without having to waste time going through extraneous information in order to answer what should be a fairly simple query. It also helps to understand what route the train will follow from the headcode. There are many sims where the alpha character in the TD lets you know what route it has to follow without having recourse to the TT or F2 (and in many of those sims the oddball train with the same alpha that follows a different route just to keep you on your toes). Another thing which I find helps to keep things rolling along is the regular quick scroll along the whole sim or quick flick screen by screen in the paged sim every minute or so in order to spot any upcoming problems (that was typed while Andy G was posting!). It is very easy to stop doing anything else while you spend 5 minutes concentrating on solving a problem in one location on the sim. While that may solve your original problem, you will have probably put yourself into overload mode as you try and solve the 5 problems that have arisen while you took your eye of the overall picture. I'm not quite sure where that is all taking us, but I suppose the key message is that it is easy to get into information overload mode. To avoid that, it is probably better to cut back on the information that is being thrown at you, learn the patch and the key points so that you can concentrate where your input is needed and don't expect that you are going to run things like clockwork the first time you tackle a sim, because you won't until you have got your head round that particular sim. That is the challenge of SimSig. You wouldn't throw a crossword out of the pram because the setter hadn't included a step-by-step guide leading you to the answer to each clue. SimSig is equally intellectually challenging and you have to be prepared to be baffled from time to time until you crack the code for the answer you are seeking. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 29/12/2011 at 13:57 by postal Log in to reply The following users said thank you: TimTamToe, maxand, AndyG, Steamer |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 14:43 #26401 | |
Peter Bennet
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" said:In real life you often get stickys on the panel at key locations reminding the signaller that the "2Bxx"s turn off and the "1Gxx"s switch to slow or whatever. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 29/12/2011 at 14:49 #26404 | |
TimTamToe
![]() 658 posts |
" said:That's what I do too, and thus by having less phone calls we have more time to set the routes and sort out problems accordingly Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 30/12/2011 at 14:17 #26464 | |
kbarber
![]() 1723 posts |
" said:" said:This might require making the Messages Box slightly larger, but it might mean we could close the Train List (for those who use it) and rely purely on the Messages Box. It bothers me that SimSig seems to lack any way of automatically storing older messages. I'd expect that in real life these messages would be kept somehow, blue-tacked to the main panel, or pushed onto a spike of earlier messages, etc.In real life, I suspect telephone messages in large signalboxes are recorded automatically, although I think the tape would only be played back in the event of an accident. They might stick notes onto the panel, as you've suggested- SimSig already includes the 'sticky notes' feature. Anything that appears in the messages box stays there until you close the Sim down, unless you manually delete them. But IRL the signalman isn't going to go listening to the tape. Once a call is over, it's over; if anything needs recording the bobby scribbles it down while talking (most old fashioned boxes had a bulldog clip with the plain backs of old notices for precisely that purpose - this was before there were such things as sticky notes!!!) Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 30/12/2011 at 14:34 #26465 | |
jc92
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i use paper occasionally to make notes on what slots have been granted to which trains, which trains are in non TD berth locations etc, for instance when working toton or immingham, or sheffield station on the 84 timetable.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
Re: Can't Pause to confirm signal number 30/12/2011 at 14:38 #26466 | |
jc92
![]() 3649 posts |
" said:i remember sticking a piece of A4 paper to a lever before, reminding me i had put a block on the line for some rather rapid S and T work(i cant remember why we didnt block back/give 6 bells but there was a good reason) "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |