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| Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 19:42 #29515 | |
lazzer
634 posts |
OK, I'm trying to find a way round a little problem I've come up with whilst messing around editing South Humberside TTs. When a train arrives at HRJ in the DOWN direction, from Immingham TMD, Reception Sidings or Storage Sidings, it can be timetabled to reverse at HRJ by being signalled from IR207 to the LOS (IR119). However, a train departing from the Coal Export Terminal or any location to the left of the Western Entrance level crossing (Bulk Terminal etc.) is proving a little trickier to reverse. I can't find a way of reversing a train arriving at HRJ from these locations without authorising a train to pass IR100 at danger and proceed towards the LOS (IR119). I assume that this is the only way to get a train in behind IR213 so it can be signalled towards Immingham East Junction. Am I right in this assumption, or is there a way to do it that I haven't seen? Thanks. Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 19:56 #29518 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
Hmmm, another problem with my quick fix of getting the train to pass IR100 at danger. I sent a 435m train out of the HIT, stopped it at IR100, authorised it to pass the signal (after setting the points for a move to the LOS), and promptly run out of valid track before arriving in clear of signal IR212. Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 20:28 #29519 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
More musings (bear with me while I think aloud). I can get the train to pass IR206 at danger,and run it towards to the LOS once the points are set for the route. This leads to mass track circuit bleed, but at least it gets the train in behind IR213. I take it THIS is the only way I can do the move ... I'll stop wittering on now, and wait for someone to enlighten me. 
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| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 22:02 #29523 | |
Danny252
1461 posts |
If the train isn't in clear of the reverse at 212 when standing at 100, just set the route to 107.
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| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 22:09 #29524 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
Well yes, I could do that, but I don't want the train to go that way - I want it to leave Immingham via Immingham East Junction and the Grimsby Light Railway. The locations in the timetable (after I have edited it) are: Immingham HIT (entry point) Immingham West Junction Humber Road Junction (Reverse) Immingham East Junction etc. So because the train expects to reverse at IMNGHRJREV, it won't accept a route from IR100 to IR107. The only way it will accept the route is if the next location after HRJ is ULCEBY. I suspect that the sim was either written to not allow one to do what I want to do, OR it's a bug/programming error (don't shoot me - just listing the possibilities!) Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 22:41 #29525 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
Lazzer, Hopefully one of my testers can take a butchers at this and if not, I'll look into it myself. If one of my testers doesn't get back to you, I will (hopefully at the latest sometime over the weekend). This area may also have been given a going over in the South Humberside update I'm working on so I'll check to see what's what in that as well. In the mean time if there is any more data you'd like to add feel free to either add it to this thread or PM me with it. Last edited: 15/02/2012 at 22:56 by Lardybiker Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 15/02/2012 at 22:56 #29526 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
Thanks for that reply. Since you mentioned updates, my suggestion is that unless it's not possible in real life, the sim should allow one to set the following routes: IR206 to LOS via the crossover located under the words "HUMBER ROAD JUNCTION on the sim, and not via IR100 IR203 (Coal Export Terminal) to LOS via the same crossover If it is NOT possible to do this in real life, then does that mean that it's not possible to reverse a train out of the CET or the HIT to run via Immingham East Junction without getting the driver to pass signals at danger? Thanks. Last edited: 15/02/2012 at 23:00 by lazzer Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 00:15 #29528 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Use location Lindsey Oil IR117(Rev) to reverse trains. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 11:57 #29562 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
" said:Use location Lindsey Oil IR117(Rev) to reverse trains. Barry, thanks for that suggestion. I jiggled the TT so that we now have: IMNGCET (enter) IMNGHRJ (pass) IMNGLOR117 (DPD=U so the train will reverse) IMNGHRJ (pass) IMNGHEJ etc etc. I routed the train out of the CET to IR100 and then on to IR122. I take it that's the correct way to do it. I also assume that as the location for the reversing point has '117' in it, the train will sit in behind IR117 and be signalled in the up direction from there. However, my 461m long train is now stopped at IR122, occupying every track circuit between IR100 and IR122, so the only way to reverse it now is to use IR212 (the shunt signal). The sim has not detected that the train has reached the reversing point as LOR is still showing in the list of locations when I click on its headcode, and the F2 window shows me that the train is "stopped at IR122" and is moving in the down direction. I therefore assume that the train is expecting to continue towards LOR until it is in clear of IR117. As it stands, the only solution is to manually reverse the direction of the train and use the shunt signals to get it to Immingham East Junction. Am I right in thinking that in order to use the LOR reversing point correctly, the train should be sitting completely between IR122 and IR117? I have no idea of the distance between these two signals, but I assume it's considerably less than 461m. Could someone tell me what that distance actually is? I also assume that allowing the train to continue past IR122 towards LOR is not on the cards, as it would require me having the Oil Refinery on the list of locations, and for me to call the Oil Panel and request the train to enter the refinery. I'm happy to do what I mentioned above - reverse the train manually and use the shunt signals, if this is the way it should be done. Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 13:12 #29575 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Hmm, got a bit of a catch 22 here. Normally, you simply clear IR122 to allow the train further towards LOR until it sits behind IR117 where it will happily reverse of its own accord. BUT (big but) to clear IR122 you need the slot to LOR even though it's not actually going to enter there, and to get that you need to call LOR who won't give you the slot as the "train is not TTed for here" (in SimSig anyway). For info, the TC between 117 and 122 is 194m. Looking at the last sim data I have available (prior to the release version), the location Humber Road Jn (rev) {IMNGHRJREV} should be behind either/both IR213/212. There is a distance between IR213-LoS of 388+330=718m, but as been said, is not accessible from IR206. Edit Update: tried the Humber Rd rev location, but the reason for refusing the main route at IR100 is it needs Ulceby in its TT. Edit2: Route is Enter @ Imm HIT, Imm W Jn, Humber Rd Rev, Imm E Jn, Pyewipe Rd SB, Gt Coates #1, Grimsby Marsh Jn, Habrough, Ulceby which is valid by TT editor, and has Ulceby in its route, but rejected at IR100. Edit3: That all works, except for an abandon/reinstate TT at IR100 to get round that routing problem. Or maybe there should be that route IR206-119LoS? Will need to speak to our ex-pat developer to find out. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 16/02/2012 at 13:57 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 13:27 #29576 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
The 'Humber Road Junction (Reverse)' location works correctly once the train is behind IR212, if I'm not mistaken - the issue seems to be getting the train behind it in the first place. Should the Driver accept IR100 if his next location is IMNGHRJREV? That'd let him draw forward enough to get inside IR212. IR117 doesn't really work as an alternative - to use this properly, as discussed, you'd need to get the whole train inside IR117, which means getting the slot off L.O.R. and taking part of the train onto their railway! In reality, I don't think propelling a train all the way from IR117 to the Reception Sidings would be acceptable either (whereas you'd be able to do it from IR212). Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 14:06 #29579 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
From the (out of date) data I have, the onward route from IR100 requires Ulceby in the TT list (not specifically the next location), but I guess the code only looks forward a limited number of locations. I'll seek out further info.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 16/02/2012 at 14:08 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 16:37 #29585 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
" said:From the (out of date) data I have, the onward route from IR100 requires Ulceby in the TT list (not specifically the next location), but I guess the code only looks forward a limited number of locations. I'll seek out further info. Based on your ULCEBY hunch, I tried inserting ULCEBY into the TT of a train reversing at IMNGHRJREV, and the sim doesn't like it, whichever position in the list I put it. Pulling up the TT using F4 gives me the "no valid route" box. The only way to get rid of it is to remove ULCEBY from the TT, which brings us back to square one. Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 16/02/2012 at 17:16 #29588 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
OK, my latest findings, having run a train to the following TT: Enter at Immingham Coal Export Terminal Humber Road Junction Lindsey Oil REV 117 (DPD=U, reversing the train) Humber Road Junction Immingham East Junction etc. The train ran past IR100 and on to IR122, whereupon it waited, expecting to continue on towards the Oil Terminal itself. At this point I reversed the direction of the train and it accepted it, moving in the UP direction towards shunt signal IR212, which had been cleared for the move to Immingham East Junction. On reaching IR212 the driver called me and claimed an incorrect route set. Clicking on the headcode and looking at the TT revealed why - the train had not technically reached the location IMNGLOR117. Therefore, it was still searching for it. So if I have the TT as above, I have to do one of the following when the train is stopped at IR122: 1: reverse the train, wait for driver to call at IR212 and advise him to bypass IMNGLOR117 (I tried this, and it works - the train continues towards Immingham East) 2: edit the TT, delete location IMNHLOR117, set next location to IMNGHRJ and reverse the train's direction. Not a very elegant solution, and not one I would want to do for every train! As it stands, it looks like option 1 is the current "best" way to reverse a train at IMNGLOR117. The only trouble is, you get a wrong-route penalty for every train that reverses here. Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 17/02/2012 at 04:59 #29615 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
Maximum length of a train for it to reverse at LOR (rev) 117 is 190m. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: Trains reversing at Humber Road Junction 20/02/2012 at 07:04 #29710 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
There are no routes from IR203 or IR206 to the LOS on the Up line. However, the reverse is do-able but in the current release, it will be difficult to get it to work perfectly. AndyG I think has a work around to get it to work. However, we have tested this in the update I am working on and made some changes to allow this to work. This is what you'll need to do (and this only will work for the updated version of SH when its released). 1) Create a TT as normal with a train entering say the Coal Export terminal (IR203) 2) Add Humber Rd Jn (rev) and Immingham East Jn and so on to complete the TT. 3) For the Humber Rd Jn entry, add a "divide front" and allocate it a new train ID. 4) Create a TT for the light engine starting at Humber Rd Jn (Rev) then to ImngLOR117 and then back to Humber Rd Jn and wherever from there. 5) When the train enters, it should be routed to IR100. If the train is too long to fit inside the shunt, set a further route from IR100 to ir122 (This is the only usable route for doing this and the others will give wrong route by design) 6) The train will stop behind the shunt, and divide. If the train is inside IR100, set the route to IR117 so the loco can complete the move. If its beyond IR100, the separated loco will automatically move to IR117. Either way, it can be routed from there. 7) There remainder of the train will reverse and head back towards Immingham East once the required route is set. That should about cover it Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |