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| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 09/04/2012 at 20:22 #31426 | |
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
On the subject of charters being top and tailed, in this video of mine on YouTube, the 67 was providing banking assistance up the gradient. Quite surprised me at the time to see that happening as I assumed it was staying attached. What happens with the AWS/TPWS on the 67? But, then, 'on the flipside', in this other video of mine on YouTube, there is a Class 47 on the rear, providing (as I understand it), ETH?! Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 09/04/2012 at 20:23 #31427 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I assume AWS / TPWS is isolated on the assisting loco. In fact I believe in the driving manual I have for VT XC that was the procedure when assisting a train in the rear. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 09/04/2012 at 20:24 by headshot119 Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 09/04/2012 at 21:07 #31429 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
Ahh the silver bit in the cab, I see it now, cheers for the help B) UKTM - I think some tours have locos on for ETH don't bank me on that, depends if there is a genny van or not I guess, however I believe towing a 47 along comes in use for shunting moves where it's a dead end, like Skegness, Scarborough, Wick, Penzance or something like that. 58050 - Agreed, I can't see why people still turn them down, I enjoy 47s and hoping to make the most of them through their Jubilee this year. Had a great time behind 47786 on the Hereford to Edinburgh last year, top and tailed 47s, the rear one shut off, great sound from 786 climbing up Beattock in the rain on a wet rail pulling up solo, did a great job too even if we did only do around 30mph, only slipped once! Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 09/04/2012 at 21:33 #31430 | |
jc92
3685 posts 
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" said:see buxton spa express for details of why a tailing loco is handy. two black fives double head into buxton station. passengers detrain. locos propel out to RS and one runs round to form T and T they come back into the station, retrain passengers and shunt back into the RS. the rear loco runs round and rejoins the front to continue to peak forest. how much easier would that be with a trailing DIT loco "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 10/04/2012 at 08:17 #31439 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
" said:I believe towing a 47 along comes in use for shunting moves where it's a dead end, like Skegness, Scarborough, Wick, Penzance or something like that.I can't say about Skegness, Wick, or Penzance, but at Scarborough the distance from Station to Sidings is short enough that the shunt move is done as a propelling move. I'd suspect it is generally only where the move to sidings/depot is substantially far enough from the station that a locomotive is required to drag it out. What that distance is though I couldn't say. Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 10/04/2012 at 08:28 #31440 | |
Steamer
3984 posts
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" said:
I remember a tour to Carlisle where we had a 47 on the back. When we arrived at Carlisle, they fired the 47 up and it dragged the entire train, steam loco included, out of the station to Upperby Depot. For the return journey, the 47 hauled the stock back in, with the stean loco on the other end. As well as ETH, I think they also generate electricity for the cookers etc. on tours with First and Premier Dining Class. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 10/04/2012 at 08:29 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 10/04/2012 at 09:16 #31442 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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" said:As well as ETH, I think they also generate electricity for the cookers etc. on tours with First and Premier Dining Class.ETH is a commonly misused title dating back to the early days when locos only supplied heating. it is in fact ETS (electric train supply) which comprises all heating, lighting, electric devices etc. each loco which can supply has an ETS index, whilst each coach also has an index. the value of all the coaches ETS index added together must not exceed that of what the loco can supply. an average loco will happily supply 10 mk3s for instance, but the royal train requires a generator coach as its ETS index way surpasses what a class 67 can supply "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 10/04/2012 at 18:57 #31451 | |
58050
2659 posts |
That isn't strictly correct Joe in respect of most locos supplying ETS to 10 x Mk.3s. During the 1980s whenever the Overgead wies came down bertween London Euston & Nuneaton, 'Contingency Plan No.2' came into operation. Whereby all services to & from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Blackpool North, Holyhead, Carlisle, Crewe & Preston were diverted into St. Pancras. Wolverhampton & Birmningham New Street services were diverted into Paddington & Glasgow & Inverness services diverted into King's Cross. When this happened traincrew were told no0t to use the ETS supply on the WCML sets of stock as this was over the ETH index on Cl.45s & Cl.47s, so as a result the trains ran without the ETS on between Nuneaton & St. Pancras & visa versa. Alot of trains were worked by freight locos such as Cl.25s, Cl.56s & Cl.58s. I was on 58038 when it worked a train from Nuneaton to St. Pancras in 1987. Cl.45s, Cl.47s & Cl.31/4s all had an ETH index of 66. Although Mk.3s have an ETH index of 5, these services when diverted all ran without the ETH on.
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| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 10/04/2012 at 23:26 #31470 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Recalled something I saw at London Victoria once a few years ago - steamer leaving Platform 2 (usual charter platform, especially if VSOE) and the 67 at the buffers gave the charter a shove out of the platform before coming to a very much abrupt halt at the country end of the platform. One assumes this was the plan, otherwise the driver failed to isolate the TPWS.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 11/04/2012 at 03:21 #31472 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
If the banking loco out of Victoria loses contact with the train at any point, the banking loco must stop immediately. Whilst in contact, it is essentially part of the train (in the same track circuits), but once it loses contact, it could end up in different track circuits so SPADs and travelling over points not locked by a route become a danger. The banking loco is also planned to only go a certain distance (I believe to the first signal on the south side of Grosvenor Bridge) and then stop there to obey that signal for its own movement, usually to Stewart's Lane depot. Last edited: 11/04/2012 at 03:24 by mfcooper Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 11/04/2012 at 09:40 #31478 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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" said:If the banking loco out of Victoria loses contact with the train at any point, the banking loco must stop immediately. Whilst in contact, it is essentially part of the train (in the same track circuits), but once it loses contact, it could end up in different track circuits so SPADs and travelling over points not locked by a route become a danger.this has opened my eyes as i thought non coupled banking was a no no nowadays "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Charter trains - why not top and tailed? 11/04/2012 at 17:45 #31503 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Unedited video of the charter mentioned in Post #34 uploaded to YouTube as an unlisted video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6cxSs5CyQc. Try to ignore the crazy lady :blink:
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |