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| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 16:46 #35142 | |
mfcooper
707 posts |
I've spotted some discussion in the Shoutbox where people seem to be very angry about someone not following "The Golden Rule". Now I think this really needs some discussion. For those who do not know, "The Golden Rule" was introduced by a host some time ago saying "Only operate signals on your own panel". (NB: It has never been an official SimSig rule) Since then, it seems to be popular with a variety of hosts, but many now host a session and use in the thread text "Remember the Golden Rule" with no explanation as to what it is. For new members they have no idea what this means and get confused when the host decides to kick them from a hosting session. Once upon a time, before workstation boundaries were introduced, people were still given an area of control, but it wan't uncommon to help out where needed, especially if a player was very busy or could seem to be afk. As long as it was being helpful, most people didn't mind. There now seems to be a culture among some hosts that anything a player does that isn't on their own panel, helpful or not, is immediately shouted down and that player risks being kicked from a hosting session. I feel the "fun" of playing a communal game with a mutual aim is getting lost. In the busy NX panel I work in, it is not uncommon for someone to help out when a signaller is busy. It's been going on for years, decades probably. We now even have a turn of duty that is named "Assist", which does exactly what it says on the tin. This has proved extremely useful for keeping the service running. Most staff are quite happy for this to happen, especially as any delays caused by a train waiting at a red signal are attributed to the cause - signaller forgot/overlooked/etc. Our manager doesn't like us being blamed for delays, so we all help out each other. It seems in the world of SimSig, some people would much prefer to see trains come to a stand as they cannot touch someone else's workstation, rather than help out to keep as many trains on time as possible. Has this "Golden Rule" gone too far? Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Aurora, alvinhochun, Backup |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 16:52 #35143 | |
jc92
3687 posts 
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i agree with what your saying matt, however there are a couple of issues on SimSig compared to a real panel someone in real life has agreed/ asked to assist and an agreement has been reached. in real life, you can see if someone is helping, and advising them to stop, or speak to them about whats going on, i have had experience where someone has "helped" me by putting a class 9 train i was regulating, out in front of a class 1 becuase they thought i had forgotten about it. the best compromise i have seen is to operate only panels you are given, however the host can interject themselves as appropriate, ie if someone is sleepy/ new, or if you come to a personal arrangement with the person controlling the panel "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 16:58 #35144 | |
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Copping
95 posts |
I agree, I think there should be an exception where a user can go into the next panel just to help out, for example on the Kings Cross sim, Hitchin panel could be looking at something at Letchworth, unaware of a service heading towards digswell viaduct (either direction), the Welwyn signaller could signal each service over Woolmer junction. There are several over sims where something similar can happen. After all, signallers are team players, no reason SimSiggers can't be 
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| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 17:52 #35145 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
It's gone too far. The game today showed that. To put things into perspective, there was one class 7 train on WSK4. The host set a route for it. The person who had control of that panel then said in the chat "WHO SET A ROUTE ON MY PANEL????????" followed up with "STICK TO YOUR OWN PANELS PLEASE!!!!!!!!". This was over one route set - hardly a big deal really. Personally I think there should be a lot more co-operation in SimSig. I feel a good example of this was in the same game, between panel 2 (jc92) & 3 (me), where we were setting routes across onto the other's panel, but communicating before hand and making sure we both knew what was going on. I'd like to see more games working like that. I was once in a Kings Cross game, on Hitchin workstation. I was dealing with a queue of trains up the Cambridge lines because of poor regulation by myself. Because of that, I had neglected the Digswell junction area and there were a queue of trains at reds. I wouldn't have minded particularly if someone had routed them onto the US/UF, or even just let me know about it. Perhaps people are just too scared to help out now. Signallers are team players. People help each other out. Even something as simple as jogging one's memory, and these things I feel are being lost from the SimSig games (save a few hosts/players). Just my opinion on this. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Horgy |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 18:09 #35146 | |
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Sam Tugwell
494 posts |
Ralph said:This was over one route set - hardly a big deal really. Personally I think there should be a lot more co-operation in SimSig. I feel a good example of this was in the same game, between panel 2 (jc92) & 3 (me), where we were setting routes across onto the other's panel, but communicating before hand and making sure we both knew what was going on. I'd like to see more games working like that.And this is why a lot of us use Teamspeak/Skype. Sam "Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 18:10 #35147 | |
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John
884 posts |
Personally, I would prefer that someone remind me that a train is approaching/sitting at a red, rather than going ahead and setting a route for it; there may be a reason that is not immediately obvious for the train having been brought to a stand. If a player is struggling with their workload and requires help then fair enough, but - as in real life - a clear understanding needs to be reached. Log in to reply |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 18:18 #35148 | |
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birchy74
151 posts |
Look this has been sorted now so can we drop it please, yes i was out of order for shouting and have apologised for that, and i promise i will be more forgiving next time. 
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| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 21:36 #35154 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts
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" said:Look this has been sorted now so can we drop it please, yes i was out of order for shouting and have apologised for that, and i promise i will be more forgiving next time.If you hadn't said that, I wouldn't have known you'd done anything! I don't think people are getting at you personally, looking at the examples quoted. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Signalhunter |
| "The Golden Rule" 23/08/2012 at 21:46 #35155 | |
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Lordmwa
148 posts |
" said:" said:This is in no way a personal attack on anyone, i have seem this multiple times from multiple people and what is needed is a culture shift not to make somebody feel badLook this has been sorted now so can we drop it please, yes i was out of order for shouting and have apologised for that, and i promise i will be more forgiving next time.If you hadn't said that, I wouldn't have known you'd done anything! I don't think people are getting at you personally, looking at the examples quoted. Log in to reply |
| "The Golden Rule" 24/08/2012 at 10:24 #35159 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2080 posts |
As someone who plays multiplayer a fair bit, although not always on advertised sessions these days, and has hosted a fair bit in the past, I think it has gone too far for many reasons. First and foremost, in about eight years of multiplayer, I have only had one incident of this nature that caused an issue, and that was relatively quickly resolved. Often the discussion is far more damaging than any incident itself and by my estimation many of the contributors to that discussion do not play multiplayer anyway so create divisions where none previously existed. The topic has been discussed on this forum at length many times before and I personally see no point in stating anything that has been stated before again. 99.9% of incidents are unintentional or do not cause an issue anyway. I have often set a route somewhere else and said "Player X, I have routed **** for you as you were busy elsewhere" or somewhere along those lines and have never had a problem. Likewise if someone does it to me I don't have a problem with that either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: derbybest |
| "The Golden Rule" 24/08/2012 at 12:14 #35161 | |
Guts
604 posts |
I agree with MFCOOPER, I've been a signalman for 13yrs, and we ALL help each other. I AGREE with help and I AGREE with telling the person you have done so. I DON'T AGREE with shouting and arguing about it. We should ALL be friends on here. I don't believe anyone would set a route maliciously. I want us ALL to ENJOY SIMSIG, it's fun, lets keep it as fun, and not let simple things wind us up. If it's a wrong route, then gently scold, remember we also all have different skills and understanding too. I hope I've not offended anyone by my comments. I also encourage helping each other on my hosts because it's good for all. Guts Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Albert, EddyHarris |
| "The Golden Rule" 24/08/2012 at 17:29 #35164 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:I DON'T AGREE with shouting and arguing about it.GOOD TO KNOW that you don't like RESORTING TO SHOUTING to get your POINT across! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Sam Tugwell, guidomcc, DonRiver |
| "The Golden Rule" 24/08/2012 at 17:51 #35165 | |
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GB
64 posts |
Perhaps he was trying to add a little emphasis?
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| "The Golden Rule" 24/08/2012 at 21:40 #35172 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
Well, yes, I was merely pointing out the irony of using the accepted way to depict shouting to emphasise your point about not shouting - sadly, I doubt the joke is as funny once explained!
Last edited: 24/08/2012 at 21:41 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| "The Golden Rule" 25/08/2012 at 15:47 #35179 | |
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Guts
604 posts |
Good point @ Danny LMAO That made me laugh. Log in to reply |