Snow Hill queston

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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 22:41 #36231
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Probably me doing something silly...

I'm writing a WTT and needing to seed a service starting at Moor Street. So I have a train leaving Tyseley Depot, reaching Moor Street and performing activity N:2J02. That all happens fine.

2J02 has locations Moor Street (dep 06:16), Snow Hill plat 1(arr 06:18, dep 06:20), Jewellery Quarter (dep 06:22), The Hawthorns (dep 06:25).

For some reason 2J02 is deciding to *reverse* when it gets to Snow Hill. Have tried Plat 1 and 2, and specifying the line as DL and not. Whatever permutation, it reverses.

Has anyone got any ideas what I'm missing please, or tips on diagnosing further?

thanks
Tim
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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 22:48 #36232
Underwood
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748 posts 		Which platform are you using at Moor Street. I have one in a TT I wrote that is 2V01 from Moor Street, and is formed from 5V01. It does work, so to check off your train there are some possible fixes:

1. Does your train start from Pl at Moor Street? I have no line or path codes used either.

2. It should work via platform 1 at Snow Hill, as my 2V01 uses this route.

3. Have you added Galton Bridge as a stop/passing point? You haven't listed it in your post.


I hope one of the above fixes it for you, if not it's got me stumped!


James.
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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 22:52 #36233
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Checking now, thanks!
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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 23:03 #36234
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Hmmm. I thought I had cracked it when I noticed that the seed service (5J02) arrived at Moor Street Plat 1 and was still showing "Small Heath South Jn" as the next destination. I had been routing the seed through Small Heath Plat 4 which didn't match the TT.

However, having corrected that mistake, I'm unfortunately still having the same problem. I tried adding Galton Bridge, but no difference. An earlier service from Stratford manages the entire route. This is most odd, and I'm sure it's a silly mistake on my part somewhere....

Tim
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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 23:12 #36235
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Bit more info...

If I remove Moor Street (the first destination of 2J02) it reverses at Moor Street instead. Am wondering whether "N" is the wrong activity and it it implies reversal if the platform is Bi-Directional. Reading manual now!

Tim
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Snow Hill queston 10/10/2012 at 23:23 #36236
Underwood
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748 posts 		Tim, I have double checked my 5V01 and 2V01, and it works...

So, if you wish to follow my TT's (minus the timings of course) down to a 'T', then it should work:

5V01 (Enters Tyseley TMD Dep @ 0612):

Small Heath South Junction 06/17 (Line: SH)
Birmingham Moor Street 06:20 06:31 (Platform 1) (N: 2V01)

2V01:

Birmingham Moor Street 06:31 (Platform 1)
Birmingham Snow Hill 06:33 06:35
Jewellery Quarter 06:37 06:37h
The Hawthorns 06:41 06:42
Galton Bridge 06:44 06:45

I can only otherwise wonder if you need line code SH in the timetable from the TMD, or maybe you need an arrival and departure time at Moor Street? Running out of ideas now


Anyway study the above and try that, I really hope you can get it going!


James.
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Snow Hill queston 11/10/2012 at 08:17 #36238
clive
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2799 posts 		" said:
Am wondering whether "N" is the wrong activity and it it implies reversal if the platform is Bi-Directional.
I can't answer the general problem here, but I can say that that isn't the case. Let me explain how train reversal works in SimSig.

Certain timetable locations are called "key locations"; the logic ignores all the others completely. Built into the sim is a list of legal moves between key locations. Each move can be qualified by platform, path, or line code (so it might be possible to get from A to B only if you enter "Line FL" at A). Each move has a starting direction ("up" or "down"and an ending direction.

For example, Peterborough has two key locations Sandy and St.Neots and a move "Sandy to St.Neots, start down end down" (it also has "St.Neots to Sandy, start up end up").

[Having separate start and end directions is necessary for locations where there's a triangle of tracks or where two lines run briefly together but with one's "up" being the other's "down", such as the Peterborough-Nuneaton route at Leicester.]

When a train's timetable is validated, the sim checks that each pair of key locations corresponds to a move in the list. If it doesn't, you get the "no path found from X to Y" message. Then, at each key location, it checks whether the end direction for one move is the same as the start direction for the next move. If they aren't, this is a reversing location and the train will reverse. When you do a "next" or a "divide", the same approach is followed to decide whether the train reverses.
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The following user said thank you: settlecarlisle
Snow Hill queston 11/10/2012 at 21:21 #36302
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Thanks for both replies. I have now got it working as intended, and am not sure exactly which change was the critical one!
Clive's post has given me one idea, and because this got me so annoyed last night I'm now trying to reproduce the problem, if only for interest sake.

If I can trouble with one other question, how is "click to occupy tracks" supposed to work? I thought I had used this before on Bristol/Exeter but can't get anything to happen on Saltley...

thanks heaps
Tim
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Snow Hill queston 11/10/2012 at 21:34 #36311
settlecarlisle
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22 posts 		Of course last night I spent hours on this problem with little luck. Tonight I could reproduce it straight away. So out of academic interest...the following causes the unintended reversal

5J03:
Small Heath South JN 00/00 LINE SH
Moor Street arr 06:10 Dep 06:17 PLAT 1 N:2J03

2J03:

Moor Street arr 06:10 Dep 06:17 Plat 1
etc.


BUT if I remove the arrival time at Moor Street for 2J03 it works perfectly.

Is it generally accepted not to supply a start time for a service after a "next" or "divide" ?
I guess technically it was the previous head code that "arrived" so that would make some sense. Happy to finally understand the point of error anyway.

Thanks again
Tim
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Snow Hill queston 11/10/2012 at 22:14 #36315
jc92
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3701 posts 		" said:


Is it generally accepted not to supply a start time for a service after a "next" or "divide" ?
I guess technically it was the previous head code that "arrived" so that would make some sense. Happy to finally understand the point of error anyway.

Thanks again
Tim
Personal choice more than anything,I have never personally bothered. however it does give the player a picture of when that service will depart without looking at the next timetable, allowing him to replatform easier when things go wrong (as they inevitably do!).

I avoid doing it as it throws up an error for each service that you do it with, making a large pile of errors which get annoying when you're trying to work through them.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Snow Hill queston 11/10/2012 at 22:25 #36317
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		" said:
BUT if I remove the arrival time at Moor Street for 2J03 it works perfectly.

Just out of interest, which arrival time did you remove as both the incoming and outgoing trains have one....

[Edit]I re-read the post and of course, now I understand. Supplying an arriving and a departing time for the incoming train is not usual because, as you mention, it gives the signaler some idea when the train leaves. Giving the departing train an arrival time doesn't really tell you anything as by that time its already arrived so there is no need to include it. If this make the train behave then all well and good!

Now, why adding that in causes the train to leave the wrong way is an interesting failure and one Darren we'll need to look into.
Last edited: 11/10/2012 at 22:29 by Lardybiker
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