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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)?

You are here: Home > Forum > Miscellaneous > The real thing (signalling) > Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)?

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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 19:22 #36849
Underwood
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748 posts 		Hello all,

I know the signalling on the Isle of Wight is controlled from Ryde St John's but the signal plates refer to 'WFP'. Most plates are easy to work out like 'G' for Gloucester, 'W' for Westbury, but to me 'WFP' has no relation to Ryde, whereas I would have thought it would be 'RSJ' or something.

It's been bugging be since I went to the Isle of Wight last week as to weather 'WFP' actually stands for something, or weather it's just a random code allocated as a google search doesn't seem to reveal anything apart from World Food Planning, which I doubt is the signal plates meaning!!

Does anyone know where the 'WFP' originates from?


Cheers,

James.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 19:32 #36851
Stephen Fulcher
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2078 posts 		I believe the Southern had a logical method of numbering signals, but I have not got a clue what it is.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 20:09 #36855
Signalhunter
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177 posts 		Wight From Pier? :whistle: :whistle:

On a more serious note. http://patrickoneill204.smugmug.com/Trains/Railway-Southern-Area/18725610_2W746H/1874409368_txvG5Qr#!i=1874428787&k=LbGgmHk provides some images.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 20:20 #36856
guidomcc
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246 posts 		" said:
a logical method
logical if you know what the method is :whistle:
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 20:39 #36857
Stephen Fulcher
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2078 posts 		Exactly, which I do not.

Rather interesting photos though as it seems the box works using the WR Tokenless Block system to itself between St Johns Road and Sandown.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 20:45 #36858
jc92
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3685 posts 		" said:
Exactly, which I do not.

Rather interesting photos though as it seems the box works using the WR Tokenless Block system to itself between St Johns Road and Sandown.
it does. however ive never seen a pic of any tail lamp camera, i assume potentially axle counters are used?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 20:48 #36859
Stephen Fulcher
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2078 posts 		None indicated on the panel, therefore I can only assume the Guard has to phone in to report his train complete.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 21:43 #36860
GeoffM
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6376 posts 		" said:
I believe the Southern had a logical method of numbering signals
Correct - Isle of Wight being the "Western" section of the Southern, so that's the prefix.

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/sigid1/sigid1.html gives a description.
SimSig Boss
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 21:46 #36861
Late Turn
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699 posts
Online 		I don't remember anyone phoning complete when we briefly visited the box, and indeed it'd be impractical to do so at the Ryde end of the single line. I'd understood that certain parts of the pre-resignalling Salisbury - Exeter line (coming off the single line either side of Tisbury?) worked on the assumption that anything coming out of the section would be complete (probably reasonably, given the lack of variety of traffic that the installation would have been designed for!) without needing to see a tail lamp, and it seemed to me that a similar principle applies here.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 23/10/2012 at 21:58 #36862
Stephen Fulcher
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2078 posts 		It would not surprise me in the modern day if there was no requirement to positively identify the train as complete. I am not sure what the history of LUL 1930s stock and its tendency to split in traffic, but would assume it to be minimal risk.

It is also possible that the Driver could phone in complete using a mobile phone in the cab, but I suspect you are correct that if the Guard is not required to do it then the Signaller is allowed to assume it is complete providing the track circuits over the points operate correctly.

The Ryde end can easily be dealt with by waiting for the train to pass the Box and the Signaller visually checking the tail lamp himself.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 24/10/2012 at 07:20 #36868
Hooverman
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306 posts 		" said:
" said:
I believe the Southern had a logical method of numbering signals
Correct - Isle of Wight being the "Western" section of the Southern, so that's the prefix.

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/sigid1/sigid1.html gives a description.
Some Ex Southern signalbox codes that still excist for now at least.

Easstern Division

Rochester ER
Gillingham ET
Rainham EU
Sittingbourne EV
Snodland EDM
Folkestone East YE
Deal EBZ
Minster EBE
Canterbury West EDH
Canterbury/Wye ACC EBT
Hastings EDL
Tonbridge PE

Central Division

Newhaven Town CCO
Hampden Park CDB (one of my old boxes)
Pevensey & Westham CCV
Bexill CCW
Dorking CBk

Western Division

Farncombe WZ
Haslemare EW
Ryde St John's Road WPF

I think this is a complete list of Southern Signalbox Codes that don't match the signalbox names. Please feel free to modify, add or delete any that I've got wrong.
Last edited: 24/10/2012 at 07:24 by Hooverman
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 24/10/2012 at 13:39 #36886
Stephen Fulcher
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2078 posts 		" said:
" said:
The Ryde end can easily be dealt with by waiting for the train to pass the Box and the Signaller visually checking the tail lamp himself.

It could be - but Ryde box is some way from the single line junction and, when we were there, I'm sure that the Signalman had already pulled off for the Down train before the Up had passed the box. As you say though, the risk of a train dividing is probably considered so small that it's an acceptable method of working.
The SBSIs would be interesting I suspect.
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 24/10/2012 at 16:30 #36888
Late Turn
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699 posts
Online 		The whole operation was interesting to see, even down to the TRB which was a bespoke document (they record times at each location along the line, rather than the usual bell signals/TDs sent/received, which would obviously be no good here!).
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 24/10/2012 at 23:15 #36892
Cedric
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46 posts 		As has been said previously, the signal plating at Ryde reflects the practice introduced by the Southern Railway and continued on the Southern Region certainly into the 1960s and possibly the '70s. I was never involved in the South Eastern, but to expand on what has already been written regarding the other areas:

Central Division boxes had a "C" in the plate. Automatic signals were all plated CA regardless of where the supervising box was, and controlled signals were plated according to the box-code. Brighton was CB, Preston Park was CC, Clayton Cutting was CD, and so on up the Brighton Main Line. When they ran out of 2-character codes beginning with C they simply reversed the lettering, BC, DC and so on. When they ran out of 2-character codes ending in "C" they started 3-character codes. Epsom (a Central Division box), for example, was CBF. Whilst on the Brighton Main Line itself the boxes were all plated more or less alphabetically along the route, elsewhere they simply used the next available code. On the South West Division the plating started at Waterloo and went down the main line to Woking and on to Portsmouth. So Waterloo was WB, Loco Junction WC and so on. Ryde St Johns Road will have been given its plate at the timne of the electrification in 1966, and they will have used the next available code which would have been WFP.

I was last in Ryde box in the 1990s. The section from Ryde Pier Head to Smallbrook Junction is TCB throughout. Beyond there to Shanklin it is Tokenless Bolock, all controlled by the signalman at Ryde. There were various rationalisations over the years and at some point Tokenless Block was installed. When Sandown Box was subsequently abolished they found the simplest solution was to retain the Tokenless Block sections Smallbrook - Sandown - Shanklin all under the control of one signalman, even though it did create the rather unusual situation of the signalman at Ryde effectively offering trains to himself. I'm afraid I can't recall how they proved a train had arrived complete - I think they simply worked on the basis that the trains were all emu's and so if they were still capable of moving then they must be complete.

One other oddity in Ryde box was that the signalman there had a plunger which, if pressed, would discharge the traction current from the whole line. This was because there was no electrical control on the Island, and when the line was electrifed in the 1960s they wanted to be sure of being able to discharge the current even if comms with the mainland had been lost. Current could only then be restored by the Electrical Control Operator based on the mainland. The plunger was for emergency use only.

Hope that helps and is of interest.

Cedric
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The following users said thank you: GeoffM, JamesN
Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 25/10/2012 at 12:51 #36899
Firefly
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521 posts 		Bournemouth used to be WFB whilst Branksome was WBZ

Quote:
I'd understood that certain parts of the pre-resignalling Salisbury - Exeter line (coming off the single line either side of Tisbury?) worked on the assumption that anything coming out of the section would be complete (probably reasonably, given the lack of variety of traffic that the installation would have been designed for!) without needing to see a tail lamp, and it seemed to me that a similar principle applies here.
Correct. Have a look at this photo on Danny Scroggins site.

The Salisbury signaller used to offer trains to himself between Tisbury Loop and Wilton Junction. Basingstoke now has control of this section of line.

FF
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 25/10/2012 at 13:59 #36900
AndyG
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1842 posts 		" said:
Bournemouth used to be WFB whilst Branksome was WBZ

Quote:
I'd understood that certain parts of the pre-resignalling Salisbury - Exeter line (coming off the single line either side of Tisbury?) worked on the assumption that anything coming out of the section would be complete (probably reasonably, given the lack of variety of traffic that the installation would have been designed for!) without needing to see a tail lamp, and it seemed to me that a similar principle applies here.
Correct. Have a look at this photo on Danny Scroggins site.

The Salisbury signaller used to offer trains to himself between Tisbury Loop and Wilton Junction. Basingstoke now has control of this section of line.

FF
Currently Basingstoke WoE panel now controls Gillingham to Pinhoe only, Tisbury still being controlled by Salisbury for the time being so still offering trains to itself. (Thanks to Dazza Goble for allowing me to visit his new 'office' in August.)



Gillingham Stn at top right, Tisbury Loop and Stn at top left.
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Last edited: 25/10/2012 at 14:02 by AndyG
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Signal Plate ID's WFP (Isle of Wight)? 27/10/2012 at 10:37 #36955
Underwood
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748 posts 		Thank you all for the explanation, I get it now! Just another Southern difference I guess that likes to be different to the rest

There is an interesting bit on Video 125's 'Isle of Wight' DVD that has a feature on the box (though didn't explain 'WFP' hence I asked) and I did see there was two panels, the other was Sandown. The signaller seemed to be pressing 'send' and 'receive' buttons so one assumes he/she would be accepting trains themselves.
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