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| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 13:54 #42560 | |
Wells
82 posts |
how long are the sims going to be like this for as sometimes people cant afford to pay for these sims Paul Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 14:36 #42562 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
The pricing structure has no end date and I have no plans to change that. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 15:55 #42568 | |
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Wells
82 posts |
it should of changed long time ago peter its not fair if people cant aford to pay for them Paul Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 16:01 #42570 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:it should of changed long time ago peterAnd it is fair that the people that did pay suddenly find out they're now free? Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, TimTamToe, NCC1701 |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 16:10 #42571 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
" said:it should of changed long time ago peterso equally its not fair you have to pay council tax, rent/mortgage, buy food etc? If you go and buy train simulator/Blockpost/PCrail/sigcent, they all cost sums of money for EVERY sim, and the individual price of each sim is in excess of that which peter/Geoff have offered the Mcsims for. have you also considered the cost that developers/TTers incur in bringing you free enjoyment? for instance, I have paid over £60 so far for documentation for a timetable for something in development, and i still have a couple to get. thats also not including travel costs to Search engine at york. I dont expect reimbursement for that at all, but is it fair that peter and his timetabling team incur expense for your free enjoyment? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 16:25 #42573 | |
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John
884 posts 
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I think we've all been on to a pretty good thing for quite some time now, but things change and we all have to accept that. We also need to graciously acknowledge that Peter has invested over four years of his spare time into producing the Scottish sims as well as having to stump up his own money to fund his research trips. I'm sure Peter would have preferred to release the refreshed sims free, but needs must, and as everyone's having to count the pennies these days it's not unreasonable to charge what is a modest fee compared to the amount of enjoyment you will get.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: TimTamToe, Aurora |
| simsig Scotland 23/03/2013 at 16:51 #42574 | |
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Joe_T
56 posts |
I can't afford to buy these sims atm! But I am not trying to get them for free. I agree with what has been said, it costs creators money to make these sims. Therefore I can totally understand them wanting to charge for these sims.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 11:37 #42608 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:The pricing structure has no end date and I have no plans to change that.And nor should you. The quality of the all the SimSig sims surpasses everything else on the market and the McSims in comparison with them are very reasonably priced. Saving a couple of quid a week since they were released and you'd already be able to afford at least a couple of them especially remembering the very generous pricing offer when they were first released. Many thanks for your hard work and determination Peter! Gareth Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 12:19 #42611 | |
58050
2659 posts |
Tim Tam Toe wrote: Quote: And nor should you. The quality of the all the SimSig sims surpasses everything else on the market and the McSims in comparison with them are very reasonably priced. Saving a couple of quid a week since they were released and you'd already be able to afford at least a couple of them especially remembering the very generous pricing offer when they were first released. I'll go along with what Gareth has written here. I also agree that it is up to the developer whether to charge for the sims or not. Fortunately for me I kept the majority of stuff since I started work on the railways in 1985, however since leaving the industry in 2005 I've spent about £1,000 on buying publications I didn't have to write timetables for sims that have been relased & also for sims yet to be released, but I don't expect anything in return. Other items I get given from drivers I know who have retired which also helps. I spend more time creating timetables for sims these days than playing them & I usually put between 6-9 hours a day during the week into them (weekends are my days off from tt'ing). I sit back & think at times SimSIg has an impossible task of creating its perfect world & that will only come about when every PSB in the country has been created into a sim. A 'FAQ' on the foum is when is so & so going to be ready? In all honesty I think there are enough sims released with enough timetables whereby these sort of questions shouldn't arise & users should be content with whats on offer now. Who knows maybe in the future we may end up paying for more sims than those we get for free & thats only something the developers themselves can answer. The work that goes into all the sims on SimSig is as far as I am concerned 'master class' & if I had to pay for any future released sim then so be it as the enjoyment I get from playing the sim is worth more to me than the money I pay for the sim. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 13:20 #42614 | |
agilchrist
258 posts |
I do not disagree with paying towards sims, on the contrary I think that the payment is a small token towards the true cost of the persons time as well as costs incurred in putting a sim together. However, it then makes it commercial software and when you turn something into commercial software you should expect an anticipated standard of completion, basically everything should work and where it does not work the software company selling the software should resolve issues within the software within a reasonable time, moreover software should be systematically tested to attain a standardised and decent quality level. I personally do not feel that the NEScot sim has come up to an acceptable level for any charge to be levied for the software, whilst it may work with the launched timetable which is relatively straight forward, anything utilising the full abilities of the time table struggle to work correctly. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 13:33 #42616 | |
northroad
872 posts |
" said:Care to share with other members what areas you are talking about. Things can only be rectified if they are reported and I think Peter resolves everything that comes to the forum pages remarkably quickly Geoff Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 13:35 #42617 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
While I am a fan of open source software, I still appreciate well-established/high-quality commercial/paid software. One example is SimSig. Good software does deserve to be paid for, and SimSig is not an exception. Though I'm really sorry that I can't pay because I don't have a credit card and PayPal account. If I ever got one I will pay for/donate to developers that I appreciate. Here's my apology for not contributing to any SimSig developers. Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 14:13 #42619 | |
MJD
149 posts |
""Care to share with other members what areas you are talking about."" The debug forum or "Mantis" has all the problems listed by several SimSig members who have access to it. I have not so cannot quote to what has been reported and the reply that Peter has given. Mike. Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 14:21 #42620 | |
postal
5265 posts
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" said:I do not disagree with paying towards sims, on the contrary I think that the payment is a small token towards the true cost of the persons time as well as costs incurred in putting a sim together.The counter argument would no doubt be that you are trying to use the software in a way for which it was not designed. However, that does point out a flaw in the selling process in that there is no chance for a test drive before putting your hand in your pocket. I have no evidence but I would hope that anyone genuinely dissatisfied with a sim within a suitable timescale would be able to obtain a refund and have the licence cancelled which would at least alleviate that problem. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 14:37 #42623 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:Apart from the issues noted here the only timetabling issue I have been made aware of is the inability to timetable a train from Aberdeen U/D Goods loop to Craiginches - but there was an alternative of Ferryhill Jn that I said should work (without the benefit of so far being advise of exactly what was being attempted). There are also issues, primarily in the Perth area, where you can do things you should not be able to.Care to share with other members what areas you are talking about. Things can only be rectified if they are reported and I think Peter resolves everything that comes to the forum pages remarkably quickly While clearly I'd like it to do everything, some things will only come to light when people try and do things for which it was not explicitly designed. Where possible I do attempt to incorporate any requests for additional functionality for the future. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 15:01 #42624 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
There are other issues that make timetabling a pain, lack of paths in a fair few places and the CScot entry point at Dunblane should be Blackrod, I've got a list somewhere.
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| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 15:05 #42625 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:There are other issues that make timetabling a pain, lack of paths in a fair few places and the CScot entry point at Dunblane should be Blackrod, I've got a list somewhere.If you put them on the bug-board then I can look into them. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 15:11 #42626 | |
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agilchrist
258 posts |
I dont care to share or start a load of wibble on here especially after postals usual crass comment. When we tested the timetable two others users in the test logged many issues on the mantis bug board directly. Some admittedly were not issues others were and we only tested Perth area. To repeat myself again, I have no issue paying but the standards of that commercial sim are below par. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Last edited: 24/03/2013 at 15:15 by agilchrist Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 16:53 #42627 | |
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postal
5265 posts
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" said:I dont care to share or start a load of wibble on here especially after postals usual crass comment.But not offensive. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 24/03/2013 at 23:22 #42649 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
One would wonder how well the idea of crowd funding amongst users for the development costs involved in simulations would be received by users, and more importantly developers? Just an idea - to hopefully be discussed in a civilised manner! Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 25/03/2013 at 07:48 #42654 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:One would wonder how well the idea of crowd funding amongst users for the development costs involved in simulations would be received by users, and more importantly developers?I have some experience in "Crowdfunding" as an investor various operators e.g. The House Crowd and Ratesetter and so on and I'm not sure exactly how you envisage that working here. These schemes work on the basis that people lend money in the hope of a return better than they can get through a bank (note that these are riskier than bank deposits (unless you live in Cyprus)). So to get it to work the Sims would still need to be charged for so that the investors (you) could get your money back plus interest. Given that most of the "cost" is the labour involved in creating the Sims so the investment would be in my time. I'm not sure I'd want to be paid up-front for my future work as that'd mean I was obligated to produce something at some point in time so you can get your money back. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 25/03/2013 at 10:00 #42660 | |
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postal
5265 posts
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But there are a good few people willing to set up some sort of regular donation of two or three pounds a month (rather than an investment expecting a return). I certainly wouldn't begrudge the price of a pint every month in return for all of the enjoyment. There is the argument then that others would be getting a free ride, but I don't personally see that as a problem; if others don't want to (or can't) make a commitment like that it doesn't affect how I would like to show my appreciation. If that could be implemented in some form it may help ease the financial pressures. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 25/03/2013 at 10:39 #42661 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Would it be possible to set up an 'account' with Simsig so people who cannot afford a lump sum at once for a sim so the can build up to the price bit by bit for any sim - just a suggestion Chris Last edited: 25/03/2013 at 10:39 by derbybest Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 25/03/2013 at 12:12 #42664 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
" said:Would it be possible to set up an 'account' with Simsig so people who cannot afford a lump sum at once for a sim so the can build up to the price bit by bit for any sim - just a suggestionWould it not be easier if you did that yourself Chris. I am sure Geoff and others have other things to do instead of being bank managers as well. Getting back to the marketable issue though. I am struggling to grasp what seems to be an issue that the testers found problems which they think affected the sims operability and the developer that seems to be unaware of those problems. Maybe if Peter had been aware of those things then the Sims might still be being worked on. That being the case then the sims would have taken even longer to be released. I maybe out of turn by saying this but does the purchase price include something going to the developer and the testers or just the developer as my immediate reaction to the comment about marketability directed me to think that there was a bit of bad feeling going on that one was getting the money but the others were not. Might be totally wrong with that idea and I apologise if it is not the case. Everyone is entitled to think what is or what is not fit for purpose and whether the amount paid reflects what you have purchased. looking at what you get for your money with other software I personally think I got a good deal. Geoff Log in to reply |
| simsig Scotland 25/03/2013 at 12:37 #42667 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Just to clarify the second point - Alan is writing a 1980 (something) timetable on the released Sim and has people testing it. During that process various issues have arisen which have been reported and which - where possible - I will rectify. As regards any other problems (as Donald Rumsfeld so eloquently put it - the unknown unknowns) my crystal ball is undergoing repairs so they may take a bit longer to deal with. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |