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| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 12:31 #42666 | |
Underwood
748 posts |
Most of you may know that the Didcot coal turns from Avonmouth to Didcot and return have came to an end following the closure of the coal fired Didcot A station. Don't know if you could call these an MGR as they did have to run around at Didcot anyway before using the loop, but if I recall rightly these were originally from Toton or Barrow Hill (one of the two) and coming from the Oxford line they would not need to run around, thus in my eyes were a proper MGR. Anyone any fond memories of the coals to Didcot? I don't actually know when these started but as the power station opened in 1970 I assume it was from the start? Trying to google some history of the MGR doesn't prove much as it finds content on the power station itself. However I have seen some things on a couple of other forums, some oddities included a 50 hauling a sick 58 on the Midlands to Didcot MGR, and a Western one dropping onto one (where from I don't know, possibly South Wales if they ever had coal delivered to Didcot?) Only been to Didcot as a kid in this era before Avonmouth was invented, and I only re-call seeing a 58 once on it but is a very hazy memory, which is a shame. I only really saw it with 66's, would be interesting to know what oddities may have been on it, and when exactly the coal trains started and where from? James. Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 14:21 #42675 | |
jc92
3685 posts 
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" said:Most of you may know that the Didcot coal turns from Avonmouth to Didcot and return have came to an end following the closure of the coal fired Didcot A station. news to me so thanks for that. " said:
they are proper MGRs. the MGR principle is to reduce the time involved in pad loading/unloading, by looping to unload with SSC at the power station, and using a High cap bunker at the colliery end. the majority of collieries I can think of require a run round by the loco, similar to that at didcot, and at maltby, welbeck, thoresby, warsop and shirebrook for instance, the train requires a run round to even access the colliery. putting it into perspective, didcot isnt that dissimilar. im sure Pascal will write you a book on 56s, 58s and later on, 60s working these jobs off toton.... "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 15:36 #42680 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
I think 66117 was the last one to serve Didcot. Will be a bit empty on the Bristol SimSig for a future timetable, though not completely empty. Though of course there is still the Aberthaw's from Avonmouth, and can still be busy. Read a post on a gen group that noted 3 freight trains at the BBHT after the Didcot coals had finished, possibly one or two for Aberthaw and one doing something later at somepoint. Yes sorry I did forget to mention my concept of a true MGR would be no run around's anywhere, whereas the real concept is a loop to unload coal. Wasn't the original concept to have a loop not only at the unloading point but at a colliery/loading point too to save shunting and swapping ends? Obviously it never came about anyway if that was the idea, Avonmouth, Portbury etc are just end terminals. Also seen a photo today of a Freightliner working a Daw Mill to Didcot P.S with HXA's, probably not a daily sight? I also wonder what the first loco's were to kick it off so to speak. If I recall rightly wasn't double headed Class 20's used first? Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 16:36 #42684 | |
Temple Meads
307 posts |
" said:Will be a bit empty on the Bristol SimSig for a future timetable, though not completely empty.Could always add fictional workings of either coal, or some other freight flow into Avonmouth, although obviously that wouldn't be an option if you were after realism and not just a heavy workload. Although having said that, for single player, the less trains the better for me on Bristol 
Username TIM in multiplayer Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 16:58 #42688 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:I thought the MGR principle was that the same rake of wagons just went back and forwards between colliery and power station and used continuous loading/unloading hauled by the service loco. The distinction being that they don't go into shunting yards and get mixed up, they don't get shunted one at a time under the hopper, and no shunting loco is used. Loops versus run-round was a detail. Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 18:53 #42701 | |
58050
2659 posts |
The MGR services got there name for the simple fact that once the train was loaded at a colliery the train would then head for the power station where the train went round a large sircuit to dis-charge the coal & then leave the power station without the loco having to run round the train. MGR wagons at these locarions would be detached if the C&W examiner found defects with any wagons. One of the biggest problems & very common was the dors wouldn't go back up. The train would arrive at the power station or when I was on the footplate we used to take loaded coal trains in MGR wagons to Northfleet cement works near Dartford. The same principal operated at Northfleet as at power stations across the country as I have dealt with Ratcliffe, Cottam, West Burton, High Marnham, Fiddlers Ferry, Ironbridge, Rugeley, Didcot, Eggboro & Drax power stations as well as Scunthorpe CHP. When we used to arrive at Northfleet in the 1980s we tended to have eother a Cl.58 or Cl.56 loco with up to 45 loaded MGR wagons as that was the limit from Silverhill Colliery, but that changed to 36 when the train originated from Grimethorpe Colliery in 1987. I was rostered to work the 1st train to Northfleet from Grimethorpe Colliery we hgad loco 58001 with 36 loaded HAA wagons in tow. Now when the MGR train arrives at its destination point your handed the staff a brown envelope with several printed sheets of paper referring to the train consist. This was usually clipped on the leading wagon behind the loco on a spring clip where either 'red cards or green cards' were appled to wagons as each wagon had them. These sheets were an invoive to the plant receiving the coal & thats was how the railways charged the customer for the movement of that particular load. The train would stop at a signal in front of the coal discharge bunker & the signals were operated by plant staff who operated the 'darleks' which released the wagon doors as the train went through the diacharged plant at '0.25' mph which was slow speed control 1 on Cl.56s or Cl.58s & even on Cl.60s. When you exited the coal discharge plant there were a set of mirrors that were illuminated by stripe lights so the C&W examiner could examine each & every wagon as it was discharged & then if required subsequently 'green or red card' those with any defects. Red carded wagons would be shunted out into the cripple sdgs at the location & repaired wagons would be added to the formation for there journey back. Toton was probably by far the largest yard in the country that primarily dealt with MGR traffic. The Didcot flows in the 1970s were booked to be worked by Cl.47 with 29 loaded MGR wagons, however with the introduction of Cl.56s & then Cl.58s the loadings were upgraded to 45 MGRs, but this required a bank engine at Landor Street to bank loaded MGR trains between Landor Street & Bordesley Junction. The Didcot flows were the 1st ones to get Cl.60s on them as that did away for the need of the bank engine at Landor Street & also the loading went up to 38 from 36 during the 1990s. MGR services between Didcot - Avonmouth BBHT - Didcot Power Station were attrocious runners. Ine major fact was the gact that Avonmouth BBHT was designed for all trains to be a Cl.60+42 MGRs & the signals controlled by St. Andrews signalbox were spaced apart exactly to that length. So if a train going into Avonmouth BBHT lets say for arguements sake has 45 MGR wagons the loading proved to be a total farce. The shunter or driver had to obtain permission from the signaller for every move in the place ie. 'permission to set back or draw forward as the train was too long for all of the signal sections within the plant. Something I re-lived walking to the Bristol meet the other Saturday as I asked a chap for directions & he turned out to be a shunter at Avonmouth BBHT when I was in Stratford ROC during 1995/96 & we joked about this very fact. I had a ride out once from Didcot to Avonmiuth BBHT & return on 60009+45 MGRs to see for myself how trains lost hours in the BBHT for this very reason. Avonmouth BBHT was probably the worst loading plant I've ever had to work with because of the stupid gact that the distances between the signals had been set to a specific distance & any train going in there which was longer would lose 2 or 3 hours in timings. One other thing people need to know about MGR trains & that is you don't send a coal train into a power station with another power stations coal. That could be a sackable offence. You wouldn't believe the amount of hassle & aggro created if an MGR train destined fotr Drakelow Power Station was sent by mistake into Ratcliffe power station & was then subsequently dis-charged. You could get the sack for doing it. I have know of instances whereby a loaded MGR train has gone into Ratcliffe power station, but luckily had been spotted at the last minute that it had been destined for another power station, so the train went through the discharge plant without unloading & back to Toton. A lucky escape for whoever mafe the error I can tell you. To the trainspotter or casual observer you would say one loaded MGR train is the same as another. That made by the case, but woe be tide if you discharge a loaded MGR train destined for another location. You would face the 'firing' squad. Fortunately that didn't happen too often. I have alot of memories dealing with MGR trains & the Didcot - Avonmouth - Didcot services especially in terms of the fact that they weren't very good runners & as a result you'd always prefer it if the coal was coming from the midlands as opposed to coming from Avonmouth. The staff at Avonmouth were good & it is a relection on the way they worked, they just had an impossible situation of working at a loading plant whereby most of the trains were over length between all the signals at that location for it to work properly. I will miss Didcot power station when it is gone, but so many memories.
Last edited: 26/03/2013 at 12:26 by 58050 Log in to reply The following users said thank you: AndyG, BarryM, sorabain |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 19:05 #42702 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Surely that would involve a wrong route by the signaller and the driver taking said route? Did this happen often and where there different grades of coal for different power stations? Last edited: 25/03/2013 at 19:06 by TomOF Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 19:23 #42705 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Fortunately not Tom. If you stood on top of the bank at Toton & looked across the New Bank sdgs like some of the photos I've posted in the 'photo gallery' to most people one loaded MGR trains looks pretty much the same as another. But the reality is totally different. Remember all these MGR trains originate from several different collieries & the coal contained in the wagons are destined to anyone of a dozen different power stations or terminals. The TOPS compter system would know which train was going where because all the wagons on that train would be destined to the same place. But there has been instances where traincrew or shuntying staff have written the wrong details for a train on a particular road & so when a driver books on duty he's told for example 7T42 on New Bank 4 for Ratcliffe, he goes out onto the train, tells the shunter what train he is working & in turn the shunter speaks to Trent PSB for the road. If no one double checks the paper work in the envelope attached to the 1st wagon & the train heads out of the yard you can imagine the balloon going up when the train is dis-charged at Ratcliffe power station only to find out that train was destined for export to Garston or destined for Didcot power station. You may get away with it if the coal is destined for another power station owned by the same company, whereby they would re-destin another loaded MGR train to go to the power station that should have received the train it didn't het, but imagine if it was a power station owned by a rival company, they may not be willing to pay & in other words shift the blame back to the railway staff for the error & to them they get a 'freebee', & we're not talking about a couple of hundred quid here. This runs into the thousands proce bracket when you are talking about 1,500 - 2,000 tonnnes+ of ESI coal.(ESI stands for Energy Supply Industry coal which is what MGR coal is termed as within the railwfreight industry.) Fortunately in over 20 years of dealing with MGR traffic I can count on one hand the number of times it has happened & that is less than 5. Probably the biggest no no in the railfreight coal indutry is to discharge an MGR train destined for another location without express permission & agreement from those people dealing with the money side of the job.
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| Didcot MGR's 25/03/2013 at 22:53 #42718 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
Thanks for sharing your stories Pascal  The coal originated from Barrow Hill I guess, Toton being more of a marshalling area? I have seen trains listed as Toton to Didcot, but doesn't necessarily mean it was loaded with coal at Toton? I think I also saw somewhere a 45 'Peak' working the coals to Didcot, possibly a 'TO' 45 but I seem to re-call a slow speed fitted loco of some form was bolted on at Didcot. Never knew Avonmouth was a hassle from the start for long trains, I guess this was no problem in the modern day with Sheds and HTAs. Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 26/03/2013 at 11:26 #42728 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Cl.45 have worked MGR trains in the 1970s. The Toton - Northfleet services usually had a Cl.45/0 on the front from Toton - Cricklewood Recess, then a Cl.47 with slow speed control was attached to the front for the journey from Cricklewood to Northfleet & the Cl.45/0 was kept on the train as well. In my freight train loads books of the 1970s all the MGR loadings are Cl.47s & some with pairs of Cl.20s. Some of the later freight trains loads books for 1978. 1979 & 1980 do have Cl.56 loading in them for a few MGR services, but not all. Yes you are correct James, MGR trains were not loaded at Toton, nor where they loaded at Barrow Hill, these were just staging yards along the route. The majority of MGR services are not shown in WTTs because they appear in Trip Notices because of there nature they are designated as Trip Services. Some MGR services are WTT though such as the Toton - Northfleet flow or the Oxcroft - Ridham as they tend to be the same every week. Likewise the Toton - Garston MGR workings were also WTT as they conveyed coal for export to Northern Ireland. ESI Coal MGR workings are very different as they are subject to tonnages & as a result no 2 weeks are the saame. Therefore it would be exetremely difficult for the timetable planners to plan WTT slots for a myriad of services that not only altered weekly, but daily too. The Power Stations would state how much coal in tonnes they would burn in a week & as a result the Collierues in turn would state how many trains they would be able to load. Bear in mind some Collieries produced loaded MGR trains for several diferent power stations. It would then ne down to the railway to supple traincrew, locos & wagons to move the amount of coal required for that week. For those people who go out train spotting or photographing freight trains ought to make the most of it because when the last coal fired power stations close there will be a dramatic loss of railfreight on the railways. At one time the highest proportion of railfreight traffic was MGR services & sadly the days of coal trains on the railway will soon come to an end with maybe the exception of a few flows such as Immingham - Scunthorpe for the steel works. Some areas where power station coal is quite abundant will become 'ghost towns' when those services finish for good. A sad day when that comes.
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| Didcot MGR's 26/03/2013 at 14:20 #42733 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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speaking of sackable offences pascal, im sure you told me once a signalman at trent got the push for sending a Castle donnington train into ratcliffe? I could be mistaken?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Didcot MGR's 26/03/2013 at 18:06 #42742 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Joe, I don't think it was quite like that. I was probably giving you an example of the consequencies of sending an MGR train into the wrong power station. However if the error was spotted before the train was dis-charged then there was damage limitation in the sense that the train could return to the dispatching yard fully loaded. If the train was dis-charged & then the error came to light thats when the 's**t really hits the fam'. Fortunately this was a very rare occurance. Either way whether the train was involved was dis-charged or not all those people involved with its movement would be issued with 'a please explain' which would be the 1st stage of any enquiry into something that happened which shouldn't have.
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