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| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:14 #43294 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
I'm currently attempting to write a Sunday TT for Trent, but looking through Open Train Times platforms appear to have been allocated on a purely random basis- terminating trains block thorughs, and it's hard to tell which inbound service forms which outbound service. Does anyone know how to obtain the allocation that is actually used on the day?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:17 #43295 | |
peterb
452 posts |
Sunday timetable so it's likely to differ from the usual weekday pattern. Are you looking for actual diagrams or just an idea of which services use which platforms?
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:24 #43296 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
It shows the actually used platform after the event and the record is kept for about 26 hours. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced?location=Nottingham&date=10%2F04%2F2013&tocs=All×pan=11×pan_start=0800&show_schedules=11&schedule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1 Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 10/04/2013 at 21:26 by Peter Bennet Reason: Added link Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:24 #43297 | |
58050
2659 posts 
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Without a station working book for the period, platform allocations would be purely guess work. I've got about a dozen station working books for Nottingham from 1983 through to 1991 & even then they don't follow suit as the train pattern for the various days of the week as well as the summer & winter periods in the timetable would also change. Some WTTs from the 1990s onwards do have the platforms printed in the WTT for large stations with multiple platforms. But to be honest I wouldn't consider writing a timetable for a station that has more than 4 or 5 platforms with a bay platform without a station working book or a platform simplifier which gives specific platforms against the trains that run through there. You will either need a simplifier maybe if you go to Nottingham station & ask one of the station staff you might get lucky & be given a station working book, but failing that your going to get nowhere fast.
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:37 #43298 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:It shows the actually used platform after the event and the record is kept for about 26 hours.I've experimented with KX in the past and it appears correct there. But having now studied Nottingham a bit further I think the service trains are corrected but some of the ECS is mismatched with the next working. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:45 #43299 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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The other thing to mention about a station working book or Arrival & Departure simplifier is that will also give details of the unit diagram, the class of unit & also what units are booked to 'Join' or 'Split', not sure whether that information is given on the link that Peter has posted. Also you get the next working shown in station working books as well. If you were to write this timetable for a Sunday, you would probably have to designate the timetable for a specific day of a specific week in a month as the platforms cam change daily. One of the Nottingham station working books I have covers the period 1990-1991 & with it I got a set of hand written amendments for the timetable change, to give you an example of how many changes there were there are some 50 pages of amendments details different unit types working different services with different station calling patterns & in some cases the platform allocated has also been amended.
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 21:53 #43300 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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To assist you in your timetable creation for unit diagrams you might like to try this website:- http://www.prar.fsnet.co.uk/diagrams.html I know it has diagrams dated around 2007, but whether the diagrams for the units on this website are up to the current period I'm not to sure, but it would serve as a guide if nothing else. The units covered on this site is quite extensive & also includes HSTs as well as Voyagers & Meridian units. Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 22:03 #43301 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Nottingham and especially EMT pose (for me) the biggest problem when it comes to writing a WTT, because yes there are some old CT timetables available on the web, but when it comes to the current local services it is infuriating that there are no diagrams freely available as far as I can find which makes trying to work out unit allocation & activity a challenge/guess. 158s obviously go on Norwich - LLS but everything else could just be a case of what Eastcroft has :P Also, what I find annoying is that there are no morning/evening ECS trips recorded to/from Eastcroft on OTT/RTT, so there is no way of accurately knowing what stables overnight. That said, I do know that there is often a line of 158s/other DMUs parked up in one of the main roads/platforms but as above there is no way of knowing what it is from/for or what is actually in the depot. It would probably take a time of observation late night/early morning to work it all out (which I'm not prepared to do!) From spending some time on the station over Easter I have though been able to see the operation of splitting/joining an extra 158 to NOT - LLS trains (something which again you can't find online) Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 10/04/2013 at 22:17 #43303 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll have a look at RTT this Sunday, although it might take a few weeks to get a day that isn't affected by bustitutions. For now, I'm trying to work out my own allocation loosly based on OTT. I'm not really concerned about class of unit, I tend to make educated guesses based on the operator's fleet and the speed the train is timed at. I'm keeping an eye out for probable joins and splits, but hopefully they won't be as prevelant on a Sunday. If RTT gives some accurate platform info, I should be able to guess them. Thanks for the link, 58050, but it appears to predate the formation of EMT, and the diagrams are mostly M-F. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 06:42 #43307 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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RTT/OTT doesn't give you info about ECS movements or certainly not to the degree of information you are requiring. Like I've said previously station working books are the really the official document you would most likely need for all the relevant information. That said if you are going to guess ECS movements to & from Eastcroft to Nottingham station then I would have thought the simplest way of sorting that out would be for a train terminating at Nottingham, just make sure you timetable the unit to clear the platform before the next train arrives in that platform. I tend to use 2 mins running time between Eastvroft - Nottingham or Nottingham - Eastvroft & that seems to work just fine. Like wise for trains starting from Nottingham in the morning formed off ECS from Eastroft then just timetable the train to stand in the platform for 4 or 5 mins before departure time & enter the train from Eastcroft several minutes before that. I can certainly look through all the Nottingham station working books I have & give you the alloted times shown in there for the various ECS shunts, but the station working books I have are for the 1980s & early 1990s up to 1992.
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 07:33 #43308 | |
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John
884 posts |
Of course there's nothing stopping you from writing to the train operating company and asking them for a station working book. They might be reluctant to supply you with this information, but you never know, and if you don't ask - you don't get. It's got to be worth a try, hasn't it? Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 08:05 #43309 | |
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Rickurd
128 posts |
" said:Of course there's nothing stopping you from writing to the train operating company and asking them for a station working book.Its quite possible, East Midlands Trains are pretty good when it comes to that sort of thing in my experiences wit them 
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 09:50 #43310 | |
onlydjw
456 posts |
Regarding ECS to/from Eastcroft - a lot of the moves are done in rafts of units, and often in the evenings, rafts of units can be found being formed up around various points of Nottingham station (including the middle roads).
God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 09:53 #43311 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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I agree nothing ventured, nothing gained. But you could always ask a station supervisor at the station you are wanting to do a timetable for to see if he would let you have a copy of the station working book. In any event these publications change quite frequently so you could get the one previous to the edition currently in use as they probably have the old BR statement on the front: #Private & not for publication'. I know from speaking to colleagues I worked with on the railways that these publications were 10 a penny. Many were used as coffee/tea mug mats & then thrown in the bin. These days the format of station working books may have changed, but the information contain within are relevant to what you need for accurate timetable probuction. I've got some scans of a Sheffield 1983/84 station working book I will upload so you can see what they contain.
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 10:38 #43313 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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If anyone is interested in looking at the 16 pages that I have scanned from the 1983/84 Sheffield station working book to give you some idea as to what information is contained in these publications, 'PM' me with your e-mail address & I'll send you the zipfile with them in.
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 11:06 #43315 | |
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John
884 posts |
" said:you could always ask a station supervisor at the station you are wanting to do a timetable for to see if he would let you have a copy of the station working book.There's nothing to stop you doing that, but if I were approached by a member of the public I'm not sure that I'd be comfortable handing a copy over. It's not worth potentially losing ones job over. If you approach the TOC directly you need not place anybody in harms way. Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 12:01 #43316 | |
flymo
135 posts |
Network Rail do publish the current WTT online, section CJ02b covers Nottingham and is available from here. for passengers and CY08 here for freight. ECS is also included I believe. If these links doesn't work you can navigate from the Network Rail homepage and then link to timetables. Hope this is of some use although it will only tell you the plan, not the actual use on the day. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jwsetford |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 12:21 #43317 | |
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jwsetford
164 posts |
Realtime trains doesnt show freight ID so thats a problem. if im designing a TT i click on the link for the freight train, look at the schedule information, look at the UID, use the letter at the beginning, for the route letter, then use the last two letters to complete the ID. E.G. if the UID is H21076 and is timed for a deisel locomotive, i'd make the ID 0h76. (UID shown is for the 1956 Stowmarket D.G.L. to Stowmarket D.G.L. leaving stowmarket D.G.L. on 31/06/13 and arriving at 0322 on 01/07/13.) Josh Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 12:33 #43318 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
the "youngest" SWB i have is a 2003 one for leicester, and it does indicate which units shunt/berth etc, however they are only given as DMU (S) or DMU (E) or 222 or HST. DMU (S) could actually be a diagram for a 150,156,153 or 155 (and a 158 potentially). some of the older SWBs i have do give diagram numbers and/or exact unit allocations (such as one i have for derby). platforming can change daily so the SWBs can over ever be of limited accuracy in those circumstances. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 12:33 #43319 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
" said:Realtime trains doesnt show freight ID so thats a problem. if im designing a TT i click on the link for the freight train, look at the schedule information, look at the UID, use the letter at the beginning, for the route letter, then use the last two letters to complete the ID. E.G. if the UID is H21076 and is timed for a deisel locomotive, i'd make the ID 0h76. (UID shown is for the 1956 Stowmarket D.G.L. to Stowmarket D.G.L. leaving stowmarket D.G.L. on 31/06/13 and arriving at 0322 on 01/07/13.) That's 3S50 in reality - not a light engine, so 0H70 is somewhat wide of the mark! Last edited: 11/04/2013 at 14:01 by Late Turn Reason: Edited to add quote Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 13:54 #43321 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
" said:Network Rail do publish the current WTT online, section CJ02b covers Nottingham and is available from here. for passengers and CY08 here for freight. ECS is also included I believe.Thanks- the allocations shown there make a lot more sense than those shown on OTT. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 14:59 #43322 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
IIRC however the online WTT doesn't show Eastcroft stabling moves either does it?
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| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 15:14 #43324 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
It doesn't, but given the platform allocation is physically possible, it makes them easier to guess.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Nottingham Platform allocation 11/04/2013 at 17:03 #43330 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Remember that OTT or any of the real time sites don't give the allocation, only the timing load.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |