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| Advance Ticket Query 18/04/2013 at 20:14 #43681 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:" said:If that is the case the remainder of the section which you have not quoted would have no purpose. As the remainder of the section is included, by implication that negates your point as the NRCOC make specific reference to the penalties which will apply if you board a train without a ticket. I presume that a by-law offence would arise if you attempted to travel without payment rather than boarding without a ticket and paying the full fare as shown in the NRCOC.However if you don't have a ticket, the NRCOC might not actually apply to you, it would be a by-law offence that is committed. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Advance Ticket Query 18/04/2013 at 21:31 #43685 | |
Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:Boarding without a ticket when there is opportunity to buy is the same as travelling without payment. The 'pay train' days are gone (Hull Trains, Grand Central and Heathrow Express aside). Last edited: 18/04/2013 at 21:33 by Sacro Log in to reply |
| Advance Ticket Query 18/04/2013 at 22:19 #43686 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:IF you were to apply common sense* to the situation, the ticket provides passage an a particular train from point A to Point C. If someone boards the correct train at an intermediate point, they are actually overpaying on their ticket, as they are occupying the same agreed space, but for a shorter period of the journey, thereby not inconveniencing the TOC.NCoC 16 paragraph 1 says that joining late or terminating early is allowed unless the conditions for the ticket type specifically forbid it (and if so it must be made clear to you). A ticket type that allows break of journey cannot forbid it. Last edited: 18/04/2013 at 22:23 by clive Log in to reply |
| Advance Ticket Query 18/04/2013 at 22:23 #43687 | |
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pbinnersley
431 posts |
" said:" said:Postal," said:If that is the case the remainder of the section which you have not quoted would have no purpose. As the remainder of the section is included, by implication that negates your point as the NRCOC make specific reference to the penalties which will apply if you board a train without a ticket. I presume that a by-law offence would arise if you attempted to travel without payment rather than boarding without a ticket and paying the full fare as shown in the NRCOC.However if you don't have a ticket, the NRCOC might not actually apply to you, it would be a by-law offence that is committed. Your link is to the 2011 conditions of carriage, the current conditions of carriage are National Rail Conditions of Carriage (May 2012). Interestingly they state: Your rights – a summary ..... You can: • Travel between the stations, or within the zones, on or within the dates shown on your ticket. • Start, break or resume your journey using trains on which your ticket is valid unless you are told about particular restrictions that apply to the use of your ticket. Note that you cannot break your journey except to change trains with Advance tickets. ..... Interestingly they only restrict "breaking your journey" with an advance ticket, not starting late or finishing early. Peter. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Advance Ticket Query 19/04/2013 at 05:57 #43694 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:And para 16 says" said:Postal," said:If that is the case the remainder of the section which you have not quoted would have no purpose. As the remainder of the section is included, by implication that negates your point as the NRCOC make specific reference to the penalties which will apply if you board a train without a ticket. I presume that a by-law offence would arise if you attempted to travel without payment rather than boarding without a ticket and paying the full fare as shown in the NRCOC.However if you don't have a ticket, the NRCOC might not actually apply to you, it would be a by-law offence that is committed. 16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the Ticket Seller must make this clear when you buy your ticket. If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available at a ticket office for immediate travel that would have entitled you to start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have used. Perhaps I need to consider withdrawing my withdrawal at #14 above but then perhaps others need to re-consider some of their points. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jwsetford |
| Advance Ticket Query 19/04/2013 at 08:15 #43696 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
pbinnersley said:Interestingly they only restrict "breaking your journey" with an advance ticket, not starting late or finishing early.That's just a clarification, the rules of the ticket are the ones you must follow That being these rules That follows NCoC 16 paragraph 1 by blocking all of them. Log in to reply |
| Advance Ticket Query 19/04/2013 at 09:01 #43697 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
I see some learned friends are having a right old time of this (and the interpretations are precisely what I'd expect counsel to advance in the Court of Appeal as they slugged out the nicer points of law - perhaps it would make a good case for a mooting society, if university law departments still have those). However, this is a real-world situation and it'll be a real-world conductor trying to work out which particular condition of carriage/bylaw is relevant and apply it as quickly as he can while he works his way through the train. On balance I'm inclined to think Peter Bennet has put his finger on it in post #44, although the actual figures may of course be different. Should some jobsworth think this is worth a prosecution, I suspect the OP could use the fact of having asked this question on this forum as evidence that he had no intention to evade his fare; seeking to minimise liability by using every loophole that exists is not criminal (if it were there would be an awful lot of tax lawyers and millionaires filling our prisons even more than they already are). Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, Peter Bennet |
| Advance Ticket Query 19/04/2013 at 17:06 #43711 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
There have been a number of accusations and complaints (by email) about this thread, by multiple parties. The OP has a few suggestions of what to do so the combination of these factors suggests locking of this thread before anybody else gets heated up.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jwsetford, Peter Bennet |