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AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 21:44 #46653 | |
John 23
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6A56 has failed to stop to collect the token. I've reversed it back into the loop, changed direction again and it still won't pick up. Suggestions, or is it a bug? ARS, LUL simple, default tt. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 21:50 #46654 | |
UKTrainMan
![]() 1803 posts |
Have you given the driver time to actually request and collect the token? Believe it may take a certain amount of minutes until the driver will request the token (the driver does have to climb out of the cab and reach the token machine).
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 06/07/2013 at 21:51 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 21:56 #46655 | |
John 23
![]() 173 posts |
Stopped at the red signal. Cleared the signal, train departed from the loop. Running through the main, the train did not stop until it reached signal 303 Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:08 #46657 | |
UKTrainMan
![]() 1803 posts |
Testing right now, please be holdings....
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:25 #46660 | |
UKTrainMan
![]() 1803 posts |
Cannot recreate with "Marylebone Combined 18_12_12 v5-2" TT. Which TT were you using?
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:30 #46661 | |
UKTrainMan
![]() 1803 posts |
Correction. Just checked "Marylebone 18_12_12 v5-2" TT - 6A56 doesn't have the requisite timings to stop at North Loop. Will add to bug board. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John 23 |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:39 #46662 | |
sloppyjag
![]() 480 posts ![]() |
From the manual... Quote: Down trains will request a token release while stopped at the down (left) end of Aylesbury North Loop. Trains can use either the main line or the loop but will stop to collect the token. The token release will be flashing white when requested: left click to grant the release. When the driver actually takes the token, the red “Token Out” circle will change to a solid red circle. The route from ME303 towards Calvert is available once the token has been taken.So trains have to be routed into the loop (which I do by habit anyway) or are you suggesting they should be able to be routed through main and pause at the end of the loop? Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:44 #46663 | |
UKTrainMan
![]() 1803 posts |
Trains that need to collect the token need a timing point at Aylesbury North Loop so that they stop there to collect the token - as per real life. As 6A56 in that particular timetable didn't have that timing, it wouldn't have stopped there and wouldn't have requested the token. (I'll edit the manual now) Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 06/07/2013 at 23:20 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 22:53 #46664 | |
sloppyjag
![]() 480 posts ![]() |
One to add to the timetable thread as none of the down Calvert trains in the "Marylebone 18_12_12 v5-2" have Aylesbury North Loop in their timetable.
Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 06/07/2013 at 23:00 #46666 | |
GeoffM
![]() 6344 posts ![]() |
" said:From the manual...Theoretically they can use the main but there is no safe walking route to the token machine so trains have to use the loop. Regarding reversing the original train, unfortunately without that stop in the timetable and already gone past the entrance to the loop (ie on the Aylesbury end), you will have to invoke Special Procedures for that train. In other words, try to send it down to Claydon without the token and passing the signal at danger (somebody can probably say what the real life procedure is for this - if there is one), or "Remove train". SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 07/07/2013 at 15:34 #46710 | |
John 23
![]() 173 posts |
" said:If it was a token failure, institute pilotman working. Not sure in this instance as there's no mechanical failure, especially as both machine release at the same time. Last edited: 07/07/2013 at 15:35 by John 23 Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 07/07/2013 at 15:49 #46713 | |
Danny252
![]() 1461 posts |
" said:In other words, try to send it down to Claydon without the token and passing the signal at danger (somebody can probably say what the real life procedure is for this - if there is one), or "Remove train".Well, sending it off to Claydon without token would be entirely against the whole concept of the system, so both driver and authorising signalman could expect to be receiving "please explain" letters! It would probably end up as someone having to walk the token to the train (driver himself?), or the train being brought back to the loop to pick up the token. " said: If it was a token failure, institute pilotman working. Not sure in this instance as there's no mechanical failure, especially as both machine release at the same time.The token apparatus is fine, the driver just refuses to use it! Last edited: 07/07/2013 at 15:51 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 07/07/2013 at 16:36 #46717 | |
Late Turn
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I agree that someone would have to go for a little walk. Going without the token under these circumstances would be rather career limiting (as would authorising it!), and there are no grounds for introducing working by pilotman (which would probably take longer anyway!) Tom Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 07/07/2013 at 18:59 #46739 | |
Stephen Fulcher
![]() 2055 posts |
Most likely someone would take him the token or he would walk back and get it. The time it would take to get a shunter to reverse him back into the loop would be rather long. Although there is no official walking route from the main line to the token huts, the underfoot conditions in that area are good, and I have on one occasion seen a Calvert train pick up the token from off the main line after the ARS wrong-routed it. Pilot working without a token being released would be fairly useless for this line as virtually all trains are for Calvert Landfill Site, access to which is gained by two ground frames, both of which are released by the green Aylesbury Vale to Claydon ETT token. During my time on the S&T in the area, I did once have to manually release a token for the Pilotman after someone decided to help themselves to the telecoms cable which controls the token circuit. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 08/07/2013 at 09:50 #46768 | |
kbarber
![]() 1723 posts |
" said:" said:"The driver will render himself liable to dismissal if he leaves a token station without being in possession of the token for the section of line concerned..." Well I think that counts as a special procedure :lol:From the manual...Theoretically they can use the main but there is no safe walking route to the token machine so trains have to use the loop. (Sorry, my sense of humour is being particularly active this morning!) Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 14:01 #46843 | |
Cedric
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Having completely failed to read the Wiki before starting to run the SIM I have now allowed 6A58 to pass Aylesbury North loop without stopping to give up the token, and the train is now hurtling towards Risborough with it still on board. Has anyone found a way of rescuing the situation, please, without resorting to authorising trains to pass signals at danger onto the single line or simply removing them from the SIM? Many thanks. A brilliant SIM, by the way, on an area that I know reasonably well. Many thanks to all involved. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 14:10 #46844 | |
AndyG
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Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. I had no problem with running the next train to Calvert, as the token was out (albeit 'not' on the right train) the ARS set the route and the driver magically replaced the token on arrival at Calvert. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 16:41 #46857 | |
GeoffM
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" said:"The driver will render himself liable to dismissal if he leaves a token station without being in possession of the token for the section of line concerned..." Well I think that counts as a special procedure :lol:Perhaps unusual is that in this case the token machine is a few miles before the token section actually begins, with colour light signalling up to the point where the token section commences. So he hasn't actually violated the token part of the deal yet, just left himself in a bit of a predicament! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 17:06 #46862 | |
kbarber
![]() 1723 posts |
" said:" said:"The driver will render himself liable to dismissal if he leaves a token station without being in possession of the token for the section of line concerned..." Well I think that counts as a special procedure :lol:Perhaps unusual is that in this case the token machine is a few miles before the token section actually begins, with colour light signalling up to the point where the token section commences. So he hasn't actually violated the token part of the deal yet, just left himself in a bit of a predicament! Certainly not unique; I believe it may be (have been?) Worcester where there were token instruments at one of the stations for the first single line section of the Cotswold Line. That allowed the train to take the junction at line speed rather than having to stop dead (if the rules were obeyed...) to collect the token. But I think in that case there was an instrument at the junction as well so that he could still get a token if he'd left Worcester while the single line was still occupied. (Just to add to the fun, I was given to understand there were several instruments at Worcester - the driver didn't even need to walk across to another platform.) But I was told this a long long time ago so I may have misremembered. Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 17:27 #46863 | |
GeoffM
![]() 6344 posts ![]() |
" said:Aylesbury North Loop has two machines, one at each end, one for issuing, one for receiving, thus guaranteeing work for somebody at least once a week to balance the tokens! Which leads me to a question: how is the safety of trains ensured while "(wo)man in a van" transfers a number of tokens - and how is the correct number of tokens returned verified? SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 17:37 #46864 | |
AndyG
![]() 1842 posts |
Similar to that at the passing loops at Eggsford, on the line to Barnstaple, with 2 sets of tokens (Crediton-Eggsford, Eggsford-Barnstaple) to be swapped between platforms. Not sure how many tokens held in the magazine, but trains passing every hour, so could be 15 pairs each day.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 09/07/2013 at 17:37 by AndyG Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 19:13 #46866 | |
clive
![]() 2766 posts |
" said:Where balancing happens regularly, the machines are adapted to take a carrier. Tokens can be moved into or out of the carrier from the magazine but can't otherwise be got out of that hole. Similarly, the hatch on the carrier only opens when it's connected to an appropriate machine. Tokens in a carrier do *NOT* grant authority to proceed on the line. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: sorabain |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 19:36 #46867 | |
Hugh Jampton
![]() 69 posts |
" said:" said:This was certainly the case when I was at school in Worcester in the late 1990s and it may only have been abolished quite recently in conjunction with the Cotswold line redoubling. Quite often a train coming down from London would surrender its token at Norton Junction just in time for the next up train to be issued one from an auxiliary instrument on the platform back at Worcester Shrub Hill. Apparently it used to make quite a difference because the up train could then take Norton Junction at 70 mph rather than having to stop at the signal box there." said:"The driver will render himself liable to dismissal if he leaves a token station without being in possession of the token for the section of line concerned..." Well I think that counts as a special procedure :lol:Perhaps unusual is that in this case the token machine is a few miles before the token section actually begins, with colour light signalling up to the point where the token section commences. So he hasn't actually violated the token part of the deal yet, just left himself in a bit of a predicament! Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 09/07/2013 at 20:27 #46868 | |
GeoffM
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" said:" said:Aha, that makes sense - the diagrams state "Balancing magazine to be provided". Thanks.Where balancing happens regularly, the machines are adapted to take a carrier. Tokens can be moved into or out of the carrier from the magazine but can't otherwise be got out of that hole. Similarly, the hatch on the carrier only opens when it's connected to an appropriate machine. Tokens in a carrier do *NOT* grant authority to proceed on the line. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
AYLESBURY - CALVERT TOKEN 10/07/2013 at 09:12 #46878 | |
Haraubrad
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In the old days, with a signal box at either end of the section, the S & T Linesman would visit the box with the excess tokens (or train staffs), unlock the machine and remove some tokens. The signaller would check the number of tokens removed, and an entry made in the train register signed by the linesman & counter signed by the signaller. At the receiving box the linesman unlocked the machine, the tokens were placed in the machine, and a corresponding entry was made in the train register, again signed by both persons. Aubrey Log in to reply The following user said thank you: GeoffM |