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| Upminster signal aspects 14/08/2013 at 03:54 #48312 | |
Mattyq
259 posts |
(Posted by an Aussie so forgive any incorrect jargon). I'm referring to the Up Branch Home into Upminster approaching from Ockenden. I can't quite make out the signal ID (UR??2). The form of the signal is a 3 aspect head with 2 JI's at positions 4 & 5 (45°R & 90°R) and a theatre indicator to the left of the main signal head. There is no Position Light Shunt on the post, so the signal can only display "running" aspects. The aspect displayed for the Up Main (Plat 1) is Yellow or Green with JI4. Obviously then, Y / JI5 or G / JI5 is for the Down line (Plat 2). I'm assuming the absence of a JI would indicate route set for the Up Bay platform (1a). My question is, what is the purpose of the theatre indicator on this particular signal? Thanks is advance. Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 14/08/2013 at 06:56 #48313 | |
clive
2789 posts |
UR852 Interesting question. The theatre only shows one indication; my *guess* is that it shows "B" to remind the driver she's going into a short bay. It's a theatre to give better readability at close distances; I suspect it's approach-released. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Mattyq |
| Upminster signal aspects 14/08/2013 at 07:13 #48314 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
Thanks, Clive. Looking at the lay of the track, it seems access to the bay platform is a divergence. I'm surprised the signal wasn't arranged with the JI's at positions 1 & 4, 1 being for the bay, 4 being for the Down and nothing for the Up (as it appears to be the straight route, albeit converging onto the Up Main). QR, like UK, uses Warner routes, however, QR displays a Warner to a Driver by means of Flashing Yellow (no such thing as Flashing Double Yellow in QR. Approach control is done differently to UK). If this were signalled to QR standards, the FY would be the reminder that the Driver is entering a bay platform. Like here, I guess it all comes down to what brand of beer the Signal Design Engineers were drinking at the time!  Cheers. Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 14/08/2013 at 19:00 #48366 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
I'm perhaps being a bit slow here, but what photo etc are you getting this from? FF Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 14/08/2013 at 19:16 #48367 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts 
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I happen to have some interlocking data for that signal. Route R852A (into the bay) does indeed light 'B'. R852B position 4, R852C position 5. As to whether 'B' is necessary when all the other routes have route indicators is questionable!
SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Mattyq |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 03:07 #48385 | |
ozrail
197 posts |
I can't find Upminster and signal UR852 on the Fenchurch Street Sim. What settings are used to show Upminster?
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| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 03:10 #48386 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
Video shot in 2009. Cheers. Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 03:11 #48387 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:I'm perhaps being a bit slow here, but what photo etc are you getting this from?Video shot in 2009. Cheers Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 03:12 #48388 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:I can't find Upminster and signal UR852 on the Fenchurch Street Sim. What settings are used to show Upminster?It's not on the Fenchurch St sim. My question relates to a video cab ride that I just watched. Cheers Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 03:14 #48389 | |
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ozrail
197 posts |
Thanks I'll check my DVDs. Maybe I've got a Cabride through there.
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| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 07:56 #48393 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
It's not obvious to a driver which is the "straight" track - the normal position of the points leads to the bay, but that's also the more curved arm. You *must* give an indication for every route unless the straight-ahead route is the fastest. Even if a tad unusual, I think this is probably a good choice. There's a similar situation at Peterborough (or was - it may have changed now). On the down fast, the signal shows a plain aspect for the down fast through the station, numbers 1 and 2 JIs for platforms 5 and 4 respectively to the left, numbers 4 and 5 JIs for platforms 3 and 2 respectively to the right, but a theatre showing "1" (I think) for bay platform 1. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Mattyq |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 09:18 #48400 | |
DriverCurran
688 posts |
On one of my sims that I'm currently working on there is one signal where all routes are taken at a very slow speed, but each route has an indicator as again there is no defined straight route. There are also signals (I can think of at least one) where a main class route gets a junction indicator and a call on route gets a theatre box for the same route. I know this as I was probably the only driver ever to at least ring up and question what I thought was an incorrect route for the service I was working, only to be told in no uncertain terms to recheck the indications on the signal..... sorry signaller my mistake :s Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 15:21 #48438 | |
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dwelham313
139 posts |
The theatre at Peterborough (P423) showed a 'B' for the bay - (although like Clive I don't know if it still does what with all the re-moddeling!). The signal to the south of Hertford North has a 'B' for the bay, plain aspect for the Down Hertford and number 4 JI for the bi-di Up Hertford
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| Upminster signal aspects 15/08/2013 at 21:45 #48472 | |
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ozrail
197 posts |
Another way of dealing with signal indications for restricted routes is to lower the line speed. Then a higher signal indication can be applied to a turnout route, or a bay(dead end)platform.
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| Upminster signal aspects 16/08/2013 at 13:30 #48487 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:It's not obvious to a driver which is the "straight" track - the normal position of the points leads to the bay, but that's also the more curved arm. You *must* give an indication for every route unless the straight-ahead route is the fastest. Even if a tad unusual, I think this is probably a good choice.I tend to agree. With old style QR signalling, if there was only one route available and it involved a turnout or crossover, no turnout indication was given, only a proceed running aspect, more often than not, restricted to a maximum Yellow (3 aspect) or Double Yellow (4 aspect). In the case of the former, this resulted in SPAD bait as no warning was given of the next signal aspect. Rockhampton was particularly confusing and drew many complaints from Drivers. Departing from platform 1 in the Up direction, the straight track was to a shunt neck. A left hand crossover took you to the bidirectional Down line, a subsequent crossover took you from the Down to the bidirectional Up line. Proceed aspect to the Down (1 crossover) was Y or G, no JI. Proceed aspect to the Up (2 crossovers) was Y / JI1 or G / JI1. Very confusing. Nowadays, QR provides a JI or RI whenever a divergence is required, even if the straight route is (for whatever reason) illegal (EG: Up Starter on a unidirectional Down line). Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 16/08/2013 at 15:28 #48493 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:There are also signals (I can think of at least one) where a main class route gets a junction indicator and a call on route gets a theatre box for the same route.The standards aren't completely clear on this, but it appears to me that you're required to do this in all new installations. They do say that you should use the same theatre box for both main and calling on routes to the same destination, so the driver doesn't concentrate on the indication and ignore the main aspect. Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 16/08/2013 at 21:45 #48523 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:" said:There was a fatal derailment in the 1960s - O.S.Nock was on the train that derailed. West of Didcot 4 lines reduced to two. The Down Relief had a crossover to the Down Main, but the track continued straight ahead as an exit from a yard with no signalled route along it. The signal approaching the crossover had no JI and the driver assumed he was going straight ahead rather than taking a very restricted turnout, with messy results.You *must* give an indication for every route unless the straight-ahead route is the fastest.I tend to agree. With old style QR signalling, if there was only one route available and it involved a turnout or crossover, no turnout indication was given, only a proceed running aspect, more often than not, restricted to a maximum Yellow (3 aspect) or Double Yellow (4 aspect). In the case of the former, this resulted in SPAD bait as no warning was given of the next signal aspect. Log in to reply |
| Upminster signal aspects 04/09/2013 at 10:52 #49134 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
Interesting, Clive. Admittedly, in the Rockhampton situation, that would never be an issue as the Up approach INTO platform 1 was quite low speed, having coming from a unidirectional Up line via 3 low speed crossovers into platform 1. In older interlockings, where a main line ended and converged onto another main line, the signal protecting the junction and the signal in the rear of that would be restricted to maximum Yellow aspect. These days, one of three things occurs:- 1. Junction protecting signal is approach cleared from Red or, 2. Junction protecting signal is approach cleared from Yellow after signal in rear has displayed a Dynamic Speed Indicator or, 3. Speed boards are used to control speed of train through points. Signals immediately clear to highest permissible aspect (G, YY or Y as the case may be). Cheers. Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |