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| Victoria panel override system 21/02/2014 at 21:43 #55965 | |
john_s
31 posts |
I've been enjoying studying the photographs on Peter Bennet's flickr pages (Thank you, Peter!) - and am intrigued by the override route selection on the Victoria panel, for example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/95643843@N07/10276197825/in/set-72157636554838025/ No Route buttons are illuminated in the pictures, as normal working was in use. But how does it work in practice? I presume (correct me if I'm wrong) the button illuminates once the route is set but (a) can you switch between routes without having to go back to SIGNALS ON, and (b) how does the F (free?) light work? Does the light indicate the route is free to be called, i.e. not locked by another route? Thank you in advance. Log in to reply |
| Victoria panel override system 22/02/2014 at 09:46 #55983 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Never played with the override at VASC, but guess for the most part you are correct. Only thing is that it will be pull to cancel a route rather than going back to sigs on.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: john_s |
| Victoria panel override system 22/02/2014 at 10:06 #55984 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
Overrides are the last resort method of signalling, basically if your normal NX buttons stop working. It's not really talked about, and if you have to go to Override mode "in anger", then you have to get a signalling technician's permission to go back into normal working. Once in override mode, a number of controlled signal routes will set into auto-working, and the few that have been designed will be available to be set by pressing the relevant override button. For example, at Balham everything will be in auto except the slow-line junction, so the only roues available are to the Up Slow from Streatham Hill [640] or Streatham North Junction [638], or from the Down Slow towards Streatham Hill [633A] or Streatham North Junction [633B]. (NB: Streatham North Junction is within the Streatham Common Override area.) As you guessed, when a route is available to be set, the "F" light is illuminated. When you press the associated button, that route will set and the button itself lights up. The associated conflicting routes will also have their Free indication light go out. If you want to cancel a route that hasn't been used, then you pull up on the route override button. The override routes at Victoria do TORR, so you are not required to keep going back to "All Signals On". Log in to reply The following user said thank you: john_s |
| Victoria panel override system 22/02/2014 at 10:26 #55989 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:Overrides are the last resort method of signalling, basically if your normal NX buttons stop working. It's not really talked about, and if you have to go to Override mode "in anger", then you have to get a signalling technician's permission to go back into normal working.Hello Matt, your override be must slightly different to ours because we only need technician permission to go back to normal working if we have used it only for a "control failure" but not for a "Idication failure". I've used override a few times in anger when the whole interlocking area is red and your watch the train go in then a few minutes it re apprars hopfully with the TD stepping through with it. When we get time with the train service thinned out and there are no possessions on with have used override controls for training. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: john_s |
| Victoria panel override system 22/02/2014 at 10:31 #55990 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
Ours might be the same as yours - I guess no-one on the floor is really sure. Might have to pester S&T. I only ever got the use one of them (Sutton) whilst on nights, and that was with S&T lurking over my shoulder then whole time whilst they wanted it testing. Log in to reply |
| Victoria panel override system 23/02/2014 at 14:20 #56072 | |
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john_s
31 posts |
Thank you for the interesting replies: it seems a more sophisticated - and easy to use - override system than some. In particular, when Hooverman describes the train going into the interlocking area showing red and reappearing a few minutes later, presumably watching the conflicting routes become free again would indicate where the train is (independently of any train describer information). Does the light in the route button itself, function the same way as that in an entrance button in an NX system? i.e. flashing whilst the route is being set, and steady once route is set and locked? This leads to second, more general S+T, question: when does the light in an NX entrance button, on a system with TORR, go out? When the signal reverts to danger or when the berth track is free, or something else? Log in to reply |
| Victoria panel override system 23/02/2014 at 15:14 #56073 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
At least at my ASC, when you have a TDM indication failure for any of our interlocking areas, all points will flash out of correspondence and all track circuits will flood. Any train within that area will be lost as in indications on the panel but the outside signalling will work as normal and the train drivers will never know that we have no idea where they currently are. By observation the TD will not step out of the effected area and they will be need to be re applied to the first un effected TD berth clear of the failure. Once your sure that all trains are now clear of the effected area you can rotate the override switch into auto/selective, this will set some predetermined routes and and leave others to be operated via the auto selective buttons. These buttons you push once to set a route and if you need to pull up to cancel a route. The F (free) lights illuminate to show which routes are free to use and will show or go out depending on what routes are In use. The button lights illuminate when you select a route. A interesting thing with our override (may happen elsewhere) is that you can pre select your next route that will call once the previous route clears. The train describer will still work for all trains entering the override area but will not step through ever berth but will jump through the area missing out some as it goes along so exact location of the train is unknown until it re appears clear of indication failure area but will step correctly now that override is now in use. It never looks good operating in override because everything that you normally use to signal trains and watch their progress is all gone and you are effectively working blind. With a TDM control failure, at least by our SBI you need to go into "all signals on" for four minutes before going into auto/selective. Then when the failure is rectified the technicians need to authorise normal running before coming out of auto/selective. TDM indication failure although rare has happened quite a few times, but TDM control failure as very rare and I've only seen it happen once. Last edited: 23/02/2014 at 15:21 by Hooverman Log in to reply The following user said thank you: john_s |
| Victoria panel override system 23/02/2014 at 17:05 #56084 | |
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john_s
31 posts |
Thank you for the further information. The concept of pre-selecting routes is interesting - I'd not heard of that before. Does the 'preselect' show up in the indications - or does the button just light up when the route is finally set? The F-lights intrigue me - as I wonder if they reflect sectional route release, which might indicate when a train has passed certain points in the route [since the interlocking is working normally, even if the main panel indications are not]. Thanks again for the information, and apologies for the detailed questions - but writing as an outside enthusiast, I find the variety of control systems on panels most interesting! Log in to reply |
| Victoria panel override system 23/02/2014 at 21:11 #56106 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts 
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The interesting thing for me there hooverman is the ability to select the next route before cancelling the first one off. Antipreselection is normally a big no-no in British signalling practice. I'm not sure how the overrides work in this instance John, (or even what interlocking it is for that matter), but in WR E10k installations the routes will become free in a sectional manner when you are operating in Through Routes/Selective Overrides, in the same way as they would with a normal route call. It is basically just a second independent way for the signalman to have a limited control over a remote interlocking. Log in to reply |