Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable

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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 16/03/2014 at 19:56 #57155
Chris Playll
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17 posts 		Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 timetable

I have identified a number of problems with this timetable. Many have already been discussed on the forum. I have listed some suggested changes below and edited a version of this timetable to include them. I am fairly new to Simsig so I am not sure to do with this information. Should I pass this information on to whoever wrote the original timetable, or do I upload it myself?

TRAINS TOO LONG.
The following trains need to be reduced to 4 cars otherwise, when they are joined to other trains in the timetable, the resulting train will not fit in the platform.
5H58
1H65
1H67

STOPPING POSITION AT BRIGHTON.
The following trains need to have "Far end exact" added to their stopping position at Brighton, otherwise joined trains will not fit in the platform.

2S42 (Entry time 00.08 and 24.08)
5F31 (Entry time 00.27 and 24.07)
2T21 (Entry time 09.48)
1T39 (Entry time 16.05
2F88 (Entry time 19.58)
2D40 (Entry time 21.28)
2F12 (Entry time 23.40)
2D44 (Entry time 23.29)

PLATFORM CHANGES AT BRIGHTON
Several trains cannot use the scheduled platform at Brighton as is it occupied at the arrival time. Using the simplifier function and a sheet of graph paper, I have devised an alternative plan which changes the platforms for 23 trains. There may be other options, as even with these changes there are still a few occasions where train may have to wait for a vacant platform. In addition to editing my version of the timetable, I have this information available as a spreadsheet.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 16/03/2014 at 22:16 #57168
JamesN
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1611 posts 		TT Developer made aware, he'll make the ammendments and re-release in due course
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 18/03/2014 at 23:34 #57349
Chris Playll
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17 posts 		Thanks for contacting the TT developer. I will attach the spreadsheet mentioned in my previous post.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 31/03/2014 at 00:54 #58052
maxand
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1637 posts 		2F88 doesn't fit into platform 3 even BEFORE joining. I don't know if adding "Far end exact" will fix this. Maybe 2F88 should be added to the TRAINS TOO LONG list.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 31/03/2014 at 01:09 #58053
JamesN
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1611 posts 		No it's definitely a stopping position error - as you can see the train hasn't even attempted to occupy the track circuits in the platform
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 31/03/2014 at 01:30 #58054
Hooverman
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306 posts 		" said:
Thanks for contacting the TT developer. I will attach the spreadsheet mentioned in my previous post.
I'm not sure what you've done looking through your spread sheet but Brighton is supposed to run with top train working and does in real life. You've seem to have now mixed up all the TOCs and Stock workings so the wrong unit, class of train and traction are now on all the wrong trains. Not to mention quite a lot of Coastway west and mainline diagrams are also mixed up if I'm reading it right. It's a brave attempt but it doesn't read right to me. If I was at work and I had platforms workings or a Simplifier like that I would refuse to use it and force the shift manager to get the correct workings.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 31/03/2014 at 02:00 #58055
BarryM
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2158 posts 		" said:
" said:
Thanks for contacting the TT developer. I will attach the spreadsheet mentioned in my previous post.
I'm not sure what you've done looking through your spread sheet but Brighton is supposed to run with top train working and does in real life. You've seem to have now mixed up all the TOCs and Stock workings so the wrong unit, class of train and traction are now on all the wrong trains. Not to mention quite a lot of Coastway west and mainline diagrams are also mixed up if I'm reading it right. It's a brave attempt but it doesn't read right to me. If I was at work and I had platforms workings or a Simplifier like that I would refuse to use it and force the shift manager to get the correct workings.
I noticed the data in Column A, Train, is out of alignment with the rest of the data. Does this create the mixup?

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 31/03/2014 at 02:21 #58056
Hooverman
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306 posts 		" said:
" said:
" said:
Thanks for contacting the TT developer. I will attach the spreadsheet mentioned in my previous post.
I'm not sure what you've done looking through your spread sheet but Brighton is supposed to run with top train working and does in real life. You've seem to have now mixed up all the TOCs and Stock workings so the wrong unit, class of train and traction are now on all the wrong trains. Not to mention quite a lot of Coastway west and mainline diagrams are also mixed up if I'm reading it right. It's a brave attempt but it doesn't read right to me. If I was at work and I had platforms workings or a Simplifier like that I would refuse to use it and force the shift manager to get the correct workings.
I noticed the data in Column A, Train, is out of alignment with the rest of the data. Does this create the mixup?

Barry
That would do it, my tired eyes never spotted that. But I still stand by that in real life Brighton uses a lot of top train working. :-)
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 01/04/2014 at 22:14 #58180
Chris Playll
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17 posts 		Sorry for the mistake. I have checked my spreadsheet and seem to have shifted Col A down one line. I attach a corrected version.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 02:23 #58193
maxand
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1637 posts 		Train 5B09's TT shows it departing Brighton P2 with its next stop Preston Park P2. It is physically impossible to set a route between them without reversing, say, along the West Carriage Road and then into Brighton P3 first. Are we expected to know to do this or could this be a timetable mistake, i.e., Brighton P3 should have been specified, not P2?
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 02:24 by maxand
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 03:36 #58196
BarryM
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2158 posts 		The timetable needs correcting.
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 06:44 #58198
maxand
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1637 posts 		I've also noticed that some trains appear to stop inexplicably at signals and need to be coaxed to continue. For example, 2D40 arriving from Lewes to join 5A57 at Brighton stops at signal 700 and I have to tell driver to shunt forward and pass 700 at danger even though the route has been set. I notice its direction on the train list is DOWN when it should have been UP; maybe this is the reason.

After passing 700 it joined 5A57 with no problems.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 06:55 #58199
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		Quote:
Train 5B09's TT shows it departing Brighton P2 with its next stop Preston Park P2. It is physically impossible to set a route between them without reversing, say, along the West Carriage Road and then into Brighton P3 first. Are we expected to know to do this or could this be a timetable mistake, i.e., Brighton P3 should have been specified, not P2?
Quote:
The timetable needs correcting.
The Network Rail timetable actually shows this train as departing from Platform 2 towards Preston Park. It's down to the signallers at Three Bridges Box to know that the train needs platform 3 not 2. The timetable is prototypical in exactly the same way the simulation is.

Quote:
I've also noticed that some trains appear to stop inexplicably at signals and need to be coaxed to continue. For example, 2D40 arriving from Lewes to join 5A57 at Brighton stops at signal 700 and I have to tell driver to shunt forward and pass 700 at danger even though the route has been set. I notice its direction on the train list is DOWN when it should have been UP; maybe this is the reason.

After passing 700 it joined 5A57 with no problems.
This is a known bug that has been raised with the sim developer
Noisynoel
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 06:57 by Noisynoel
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 06:59 #58200
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		" said:
2F88 doesn't fit into platform 3 even BEFORE joining. I don't know if adding "Far end exact" will fix this. Maybe 2F88 should be added to the TRAINS TOO LONG list.

I've re-run this train three times now and am unable to replicate what you have done.
Noisynoel
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 08:37 #58211
maxand
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1637 posts 		At the time I posted the pic above, 2F88 had actually come to a stop, as shown on the Train List, but outside P3. I can't recall the wording now (might have been "awaiting authority"but forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

Looking forward to playing a fully tested timetable.
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 08:38 by maxand
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 09:58 #58219
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		" said:
At the time I posted the pic above, 2F88 had actually come to a stop, as shown on the Train List, but outside P3. I can't recall the wording now (might have been "awaiting authority"but forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

Looking forward to playing a fully tested timetable.
The timetable HAS been tested, there are a couple of minor issues which will be fixed in a later release. The issue you have with 2F88 has nothing to do with the timetable, it MAY be a sim issue, but like I said I have been unable to reproduce it. Perhaps the Dev might be able to!

I do wish thought that you'd stop criticising my timetables. I do them in my own free time and get nothing back from them. 99.9% of the people that use SimSig appreciate this work, but you, no you just complain even when there is no issue with the timetable.. Makes me wonder why I bother!
Noisynoel
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 10:14 #58221
maxand
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1637 posts 		Oh, so this timetable is one of yours? Thanks for letting me know. That explains a lot.
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 10:15 by maxand
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 11:01 #58226
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		" said:
Oh, so this timetable is one of yours? Thanks for letting me know. That explains a lot.
I'll ignore that and just challenge you to write one of your own so the rest can then criticise your efforts!
Noisynoel
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 11:06 #58227
jc92
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3701 posts 		" said:
" said:
Oh, so this timetable is one of yours? Thanks for letting me know. That explains a lot.
I'll ignore that and just challenge you to write one of your own so the rest can then criticise your efforts!
dont encourage him! we may then end up with numerous threads on ways to reduce the number of clicks and presses on the timetable editor next!

I presume despite the relentless criticism, max will no doubt be playing another one of your timetables in the near future with further feedback...
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 12:35 #58234
maxand
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1637 posts 		jc92 wrote:
Quote:
dont encourage him! we may then end up with numerous threads on ways to reduce the number of clicks and presses on the timetable editor next!

No need - been there, done that.
One-step jump from Timetable List to Location List
Copy a train's timetable to a file?
Timetable List to show only trains in area


Quote:
I presume despite the relentless criticism, max will no doubt be playing another one of your timetables in the near future with further feedback

I don't take too much notice of who writes the timetable I play, I'd just like to feel competent enough to fix faults in them on the fly, which I don't right now, so I report them. Like all things, it's not the 98% of smooth bits that stand out, it's the little 2% of prickly ones that escaped attention during testing. Noisynoel, all joking aside, we really appreciate the effort you have put into making all your timetables work as well as they do, and that includes me.

THE LAST BUG

"But you're out of your mind,"
They said with a shrug.
"The customer's happy;
What's one little bug?"

But he was determined.
The others went home.
He spread out the program,
Deserted, alone.

The cleaning men came,
The whole room was cluttered
With memory-dumps, punch cards.
"I'm close," he muttered.

The mumbling got louder,
Simple deduction,
"I've got it, it's right,
Just change one instruction."

It still wasn't perfect,
As year followed year,
And strangers would comment,
"Is that guy still here?"

He died at the console,
Of hunger and thirst.
Next day he was buried,
Face down, nine-edge first.

And the last bug in sight,
An ant passing by,
Saluted his tombstone,
And whispered, "Nice try."
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 12:49 by maxand
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 02/04/2014 at 16:26 #58249
Steamer
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3997 posts 		Once again we seem to have a point worth discussion buried in the unnecessary sarcasm...

" said:

The Network Rail timetable actually shows this train as departing from Platform 2 towards Preston Park. It's down to the signallers at Three Bridges Box to know that the train needs platform 3 not 2. The timetable is prototypical in exactly the same way the simulation is.
Since this is the default timetable supplied with the simulation, would it be possible to correct this particular problem? Two trains being booked in the same platform is fair enough and manageable, however a 'job-stopper' like that is, in my opinion, a bit harsh. Or at least a warning in the timetable description? I take your point about realism, but I think it's fair to give the player at least a 'heads up', especially as this is the supplied TT.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 22:35 by Steamer
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 03/04/2014 at 04:59 #58286
maxand
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1637 posts 		Since my earlier post #10 about 5B09, I've found the solution to my situation. 5B09 automatically reverses to Down when it reaches Brighton P2. Set a route Down along the West Branch till it is past signal LG1 at Aldrington (nearly at the fringe), reverse its direction and set a route from signal 1400 to 422 (Preston Park P2).

But I agree with BarryM that it should have gone to Brighton P3 instead of P2 and reversed from there.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 03/04/2014 at 06:19 #58287
Late Turn
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699 posts 		A simpler solution, and one much less likely to result in an invitation to tea without biscuits (and probably without tea), would be to edit 5B09's schedule to insert a Hove call (between Brighton and Preston Park), so that the train can be signalled normally throughout and will reverse automatically in Hove station. Just one for future reference!
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 03/04/2014 at 08:10 #58288
maxand
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1637 posts 		I'll leave that to the original TT author.
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Brighton 15th October 2009 v1.4 Timetable 03/04/2014 at 09:53 #58290
kbarber
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1764 posts 		As a general point - and given that some people are learning sims without the railway background some of us have - I think it would be a good thing if timetable writers could at least give a 'heads up' where errors in the original WTT document have been left in the timetable they've written. Yes, it's realistic and it's the bobby's job to sort out the resulting issues. But SimSig users who aren't professionals may be labouring under the happy misapprehension that the real railway gets things right sometimes and be lulled into actually believing the timetable.
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