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Good news, everyone!

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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 13:32 #58863
Steamer
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4034 posts
Online 		Open Train Times is back!
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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The following users said thank you: 58050, Pinza, maxand, CTCThiago, Vortexhaha
Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 14:02 #58867
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks Steamer. Will restore it to the Wiki Links page.
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:47 #58883
Pinza
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106 posts 		Highly impressed with this - especially given that I live in Rugby and one of the live maps (Wolverton - Shilton/Brandon) covers whats happening outside my window.

One question though:

I see that the 1935 Lawley St to Tilbury container train is sitting at back side of Rugby waiting for booked departure of 2050.

Won't make a screengrab for fear of contravening usage rules but both real train times and open train times have this described as 489U.

I'm not sure what the actual 'headcode' for this service is - but doesn't seem to be in the freight headcode format I am used to.

Any explanation welcome! Weird headcodes for all freight services...
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 19:48 by Pinza
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:50 #58884
GW43125
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495 posts 		The open data feeds provided by network rail only give the first number of a headcode, the other 3 characters are completely random.
So, 489U tells us it is a class 4 freight, but that is all they are telling us.
This is a decision on NR's behalf, NOT OTT.

Hope this helps,
DSW.

-----Extra Post-----

On the East Coastway map, could anyone lend a hand on the meaning of the level crossing indications in the Pevensey area?

Thanks,
DSW.
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 19:54 by GW43125
Reason: Added Extra Code; Altered Existing Code
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The following user said thank you: Pinza
Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:53 #58885
headshot119
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4871 posts 		" said:
The open data feeds provided by network rail only give the first number of a headcode, the other 3 characters are completely random.
So, 489U tells us it is a class 4 freight, but that is all they are telling us.
This is a decision on NR's behalf, NOT OTT.

Hope this helps,
DSW.
That's not strictly true, it's actually the decision of the FOCs who believe the data is commercially sensitive.

I'm not sure for the life of me which FOC run all the EWS Cwmbargoed colliery to EWS Aberthaw Power Station trains. :pinch:
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 19:56 by headshot119
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:55 #58886
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
" said:
The open data feeds provided by network rail only give the first number of a headcode, the other 3 characters are completely random.
So, 489U tells us it is a class 4 freight, but that is all they are telling us.
This is a decision on NR's behalf, NOT OTT.

Hope this helps,
DSW.
That's not strictly true, it's actually the decision of the FOCs who believe the data is commercially sensitive.

I'm not sure for the life of me which FOC run all the EWS Cwmbargoed colliery to EWS Aberthaw Power Station :pinch:
All I know is UKRailtours ran Paddington to Cwmbargoed once- Check my signature!
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 19:55 by GW43125
Reason: Corrected Spelling
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:56 #58887
Nutter
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87 posts 		I'm so glad OTT is back, it was the only website of its sort I was aware off, ironically until it closed then I found one of the others. I think it may be more for security than commercial sensitivity as they can be transporting anything including hazardous substances, and only blanking some would draw attention from the bad guys, A generic one its means to someone doing a quick search that they all look the same
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:57 #58888
headshot119
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4871 posts 		" said:
I'm so glad OTT is back, it was the only website of its sort I was aware off, ironically until it closed then I found one of the others. I think it may be more for security than commercial sensitivity as they can be transporting anything including hazardous substances, and only blanking some would draw attention from the bad guys, A generic one its means to someone doing a quick search that they all look the same
No it's definitely for reasons of commercial sensitivity that the headcodes are hidden. It was the main condition for NR to be able to release the live data for freight trains.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 19:59 #58889
GW43125
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495 posts 		Even 1Z84 (In my signature) showed up in RTT as '107J'
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 20:00 by GW43125
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:02 #58890
headshot119
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4871 posts 		" said:
Even 1Z84 (In my signature) showed up in RTT as '107J'
Any train that is entered into the system with an operator code of "ZZ" (Which a lot of rail tours are as they are run by FOCs) will have a random headcode.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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The following user said thank you: GW43125
Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:02 #58891
Steamer
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4034 posts
Online 		" said:
Even 1Z84 (In my signature) showed up in RTT as '107J'
I'm guessing that's because the tour was operated by DBS. If it was operated by WCRC, it'd display the proper headcode.

EDIT: Headshot posted while I was typing.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 20:06 by Steamer
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The following users said thank you: headshot119, GW43125
Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:03 #58892
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
" said:
Even 1Z84 (In my signature) showed up in RTT as '107J'
Any train that is entered into the system with an operator code of "ZZ" (Which a lot of rail tours are as they are run by FOCs) will have a random headcode.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:07 #58893
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
" said:
Even 1Z84 (In my signature) showed up in RTT as '107J'
I'm guessing that's because the tour was operated by DBS. If it was operated by WCRC, it'd display the proper headcode.
Ah yes, when I went to Scarborough (Operated by WCRC with an EMT HST), the correct Headcode was in the system.
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:40 #58894
GoodbyeMrFish
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148 posts 		All Headcodes in the WTT can be found on Networkrails on website anyway. You just have to do some cross referencing, Freightliner publish headcodes too :)

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?root=&dir=%5cTimetables%5cWorking%20timetable%20(WTT)

Only thing you wont get is the STP/VSTP.

Example:
Timetable for stowmarket / Ely

Rich
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 20:41 #58895
Danny252
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1461 posts 		It's also not strictly random - if I remember rightly, the letter is associated with the departure time, incrementing with each hour, and wrapping back to "A" after hour "Z". I can't recall if the remaining digits are random or sequential.


" said:
Only thing you wont get is the STP/VSTP.
However, STP/VSTP or altered WTT entries can make up a significant quantity - I've found them to be over half of all freight trains in some locations (often variable flows like coal or stone).
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 20:44 by Danny252
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 21:01 #58898
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
It's also not strictly random - if I remember rightly, the letter is associated with the departure time, incrementing with each hour, and wrapping back to "A" after hour "Z". I can't recall if the remaining digits are random or sequential.
My trip had 3 IDs- 1z82, 1z83 & 1z84
They showed on RTT as 105J, 106J and 107J. All departed in different hours so am not sure about hourly increment, however I do believe these numbers are randomly sequential.

Hope this helps,
DSW
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 21:04 #58899
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
All Headcodes in the WTT can be found on Networkrails on website anyway. You just have to do some cross referencing, Freightliner publish headcodes too
Was already aware of the WTT, however could someone in the know please explain the train type codes?

Thanks,
DSW
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 21:37 #58900
CTCThiago
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232 posts 		I'm happy to take known. Let's try to help and support when possible (as $$ permits).

Cheers,
Thiago.
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 22:21 #58901
Sacro
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1171 posts 		" said:
The open data feeds provided by network rail only give the first number of a headcode, the other 3 characters are completely random.
They aren't random at all, they are issued sequentially throughout the day,
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Good news, everyone! 14/04/2014 at 23:44 #58902
Danny252
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1461 posts 		" said:
" said:
It's also not strictly random - if I remember rightly, the letter is associated with the departure time, incrementing with each hour, and wrapping back to "A" after hour "Z". I can't recall if the remaining digits are random or sequential.
My trip had 3 IDs- 1z82, 1z83 & 1z84
They showed on RTT as 105J, 106J and 107J. All departed in different hours so am not sure about hourly increment, however I do believe these numbers are randomly sequential.

Hope this helps,
DSW
"Randomly sequential" is an oxymoron, and doesn't actually mean anything...

Having looked again, it appears that the obfuscated codes have changed since I was told about how they worked - the letters do seem to increment with time, but no longer hourly. Numbers may be sequential to some extent, but it's not too hard to find later trains given lower numbers (e.g. 492S 10:08 Lawley St-Felixstowe is allocated before 429S 12:28 Doncaster-Felixstowe).
Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 23:48 by Danny252
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Good news, everyone! 15/04/2014 at 07:25 #58910
Forest Pines
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529 posts 		I did note a few months back that freight services operated by Devon & Cornwall Railways didn't get their headcodes obfuscated - presumably the NR systems have them down as a passenger TOC.
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Good news, everyone! 15/04/2014 at 09:04 #58917
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
" said:
however I do believe these numbers are randomly sequential.
"Randomly sequential" is an oxymoron, and doesn't actually mean anything...
I meant they are sequential but there is no rule as such governing it- the joys of posting whilst tired!!
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Open Train Times 16/04/2014 at 12:59 #58965
vontrapp
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210 posts 		I can confirm that it is up and running. It has a commercial-use page,too. He should be able to get paid for his work and maybe get back the money he lost, hopefully.
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