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| Eurostar break down 08/01/2010 at 22:53 #5626 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
lpeters said:Sorry I meant to say "why hasn't it happened more before..."A missing word can make all the difference... The problem, as described by Eurostar this time AND when it happened to me, was the way the snow entered the ventilation ducts. Perhaps a particular angle, or a certain type of snow. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 08/01/2010 at 23:17 #5627 | |
lpeters
160 posts |
I still wouldn't be overly convinced by that story either. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/LGV_Interconnexion_Est_-_Chennevi%C3%A8res-l%C3%A8s-Louvres_-_4.jpg That picture would tell me that in a) this should happen in rain AND snow and b) if we say it should happen in rain as well; all it takes is for the wind to blow in a particular direction for a specific amount of time and wham the same problem should happen. There must be more to it than snow entering in a particular way, if they hadn't then Alstom didn't think very well when they designed and built the Eurostar Power Cars... Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 08/01/2010 at 23:32 #5629 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Not as good as New Street today only 2 platforms available!!!!!!!!
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| Eurostar break down 08/01/2010 at 23:36 #5630 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
lpeters said:That picture would tell me that in a) this should happen in rain AND snowRain is not the same as snow, and not all snow is the same. It is impossible to tell from an external picture exactly what is where inside the body of the train and how it would be affected. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 00:10 #5631 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
Maybe not but I can see where the vents are and, snow is snow, as long as it doesn't go through the otherside the only different would be whether it thaws in a few seconds or a few minutes because although the tunnel will be warm; the engine will be even hotter (electricity = hot) so it comes back to the question: is it the wrong kind of snow? becuase if it is a different kind of snow then the right kind must be the 1 that doesn't short out the electrics and the wrong kind the type that does.
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| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 01:33 #5632 | |
postal
5264 posts |
It could be nothing at all to do with snow and all to do with condensation. Even if there were no snow, if the train has been running through a cold environment and even allowing for the rather bold statement that electricity = hot, there will be a lot of cold surfaces. If the train then enters a warm humid environment, there will be a significant amount of condensation formed on those surfaces. Depending on the physical configuration of those surfaces, you could get ingress of water into places where it should not be found. No matter how many photographs we see, we don't have enough information to pass judgement about the internal configuration, potential water traps etc. It may just be that we are going through a period of relative temperatures and humidity that we have not seen previously during the operation of the Eurostar trains. Without further information, any suppositions are just that (including my suggestion above), and while suppositions without any evidence may satisfy the technologically illiterate scribes who inhabit the world of the media, they don't supply any sound understanding of the problem nor any sensible engineering solution. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 08:46 #5633 | |
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pilotman
189 posts |
Well this has been an interesting interchange, albeit some contributors may have misinterpreted the words "I have a feeling" in my earlier post, to mean "I am a retired Chartered Mechanical Engineer and this is a technical paper on this subject" I think JG has it about right. Apparently the Met office has 60 different types of snow defined so some unfortunate combination of air temperature, type of snow, its change of state in the tunnel (and even dare I say condensation) could be the answer. Ray Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 13:31 #5649 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
I'm pretty sure that over nearly 20(ish) x 365 days; each type of condensation would have happened atleast a few times. There has to be more to it than the snow got in the system... because if there isn't then what are they cutting back on in the maintainence which is meaning that the job isn't being finished properly.
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| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 14:35 #5655 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
A lot of risk management in regard to weather related events (floods, snow etc) is based on once in a hundred years expectations. I don't know enough about the weather condition in Northern France to understand whether they fall into the once in a hundred years category. However, "pretty sure that over nearly 20(ish) x 365 days" is only one-fifth of the way into the normal risk assessments in this sort of area. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 09/01/2010 at 15:04 #5658 | |
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Osprey
35 posts |
Not being passed on Eurostars or any really modern passenger multiple units Im not in the know as it were,but in the dim and distant when I drove M.Us I found the biggest failure in them was the fact that they sucked air in through ducts mainly for traction motor cooling so leaves,snow even sand from locomotives caused a lot of problems.I always seemed to find it worse with the more modern units,455,456,318 and 319s with some laughable failures in the snow with 455s with a 455 and a fire engine at Tattenham Corner springing to mind! The point Im making before I ramble off (again) is the modern way of designing these units cost is a huge issue and engineers seem to have their hands tied by the financial boys.Unlike the early B.R "Belt and Braces" attitude I dont think "once in a hundred years" varibles will be catered for in the building of these units.I dont how many years these are designed to run for but it wont be anywhere near a hundred years. Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 14/03/2010 at 23:28 #7294 | |
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computeringjl
29 posts |
if you have read this month's RAIL, Modern Railways, you would have noticed a few pages article about why the Eurostar broke down. One of the main reasons is the inductor, which is just a pound's coin length to the roof the Eurostar. Sad to say you hv to go to WHSmith or other magazine stores to read these two mag. U cannot read their articles online.
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| Eurostar break down 15/03/2010 at 00:56 #7295 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
Or even put your hand in your pocket and buy them.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Eurostar break down 28/03/2010 at 09:43 #7918 | |
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Signaller@Amsterdam
76 posts |
Come on... Modern railways is a good mag for those of us not whishing to see 10.000 of pictures of steam engines and special workings, but want to know everything what's going on on todays railways. I especially like Informed sources by Captain Deltic. He is spott on in most cases. Remember what he seaid about IEP a year ago... He was right. Remember what he told us about HS2... he was spott on again. I think Modern Railways is not for the"stereo type" rail enthousiast... and I like it that way. And please stop complaining about the price... I pay three times as much every month at my local Waterstones. A good free magazine is available for free at www.railwayherald.co.uk Log in to reply |
