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| Settle and Carlisle 19/01/2016 at 19:58 #79970 | |
GeorgeUK
29 posts |
In the year of '69, they planned to run a train...and nearly 150 years later, the Settle to Carlisle line is still going strong. The line might not see as much passenger traffic as Shap, but there is just as much freight, with various coal traffic from Scotland (and the returning empties), as well as logs between Chirk and Carlisle. Go back to the 70s/80s, and a plethora of freight would be seen, along with Anglo-Scottish expresses. If the NWC line, worked on a similar principle to the S&C (block/semaphore signalling), can be simulated, why not the S&C? Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 19/01/2016 at 20:01 #79971 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
Usual caveats apply, would need data for each box (I have diagrams for most of them), showing distances for track circuits, signalling infrastructure and the like, and then development and testing time.
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| Settle and Carlisle 19/01/2016 at 20:59 #79973 | |
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Forest Pines
529 posts |
As a rough estimate, with a current timetable you would have maybe 4-5 trains in play at any one time, with passenger trains taking about 100 minutes to pass through the area. With a 1970s-80s timetable, the number of trains would of course be much much lower. Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 13:09 #79980 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
It would certainly be interesting to Chain to Carlisle. Certainly the consequences of sending trains in the wrong order would be significant over that distance.
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| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 14:30 #79981 | |
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WesternChampion
173 posts |
" said:With a 1970s-80s timetable, the number of trains would of course be much much lower.That would be true of passenger trains but not of freights. When the WCML was modernised and electrified all catch points were removed over Shap, with all unfitted freights being sent via the S&C. I have happy memories of watching Class 40s lumbering over the Long Drag with mixed freights while on holiday in the area in 1980 and 1981. Perhaps the route could be combined with Leeds North West to fringe onto Leeds City? Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 14:39 #79982 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:" said:Think that'd make Leeds NW into one huge sim, you'll probably be better off having an S&C sim that chains to Leeds NW / Preston / CarlisleWith a 1970s-80s timetable, the number of trains would of course be much much lower.That would be true of passenger trains but not of freights. When the WCML was modernised and electrified all catch points were removed over Shap, with all unfitted freights being sent via the S&C. I have happy memories of watching Class 40s lumbering over the Long Drag with mixed freights while on holiday in the area in 1980 and 1981. Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 15:01 #79984 | |
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WesternChampion
173 posts |
I was just thinking that, while it is the second best railway journey in the world, as a sim it would probably be quite boring, as there are long block sections and very few loops to do anything about out of course running. It's the regulation at Hellifield and Carlisle that is crucial to the efficient operation of the S&C.
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| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 15:20 #79986 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:I was just thinking that, while it is the second best railway journey in the world, as a sim it would probably be quite boring, as there are long block sections and very few loops to do anything about out of course running. It's the regulation at Hellifield and Carlisle that is crucial to the efficient operation of the S&C.I'm sure a certain timetable writer would be able to come up with a tt that involve trips going in and out of every GF and siding on the patch! Kev Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:07 #79988 | |
Andrew G
552 posts |
" said:" said:Unless you got for a very early era this would start to move away from prototypical into fictional - my preference is for prototypical. The challenge for S&C is the only real loops for regulating purposes in the last 30 or so years have been at Howe & Co Sidings and Blea Moor. Any other regulating requires the train to stop and propel into a Relief Siding, assuming one exists in the direction of travel. Recent capacity improvements have been the addition of Intermediate Block Signals where some of the small boxes which used to break the longer block sections existed. Either way you end up with a procession of trains.I was just thinking that, while it is the second best railway journey in the world, as a sim it would probably be quite boring, as there are long block sections and very few loops to do anything about out of course running. It's the regulation at Hellifield and Carlisle that is crucial to the efficient operation of the S&C.I'm sure a certain timetable writer would be able to come up with a tt that involve trips going in and out of every GF and siding on the patch! North Wales Coast is quite different as it has a couple of Branches and Terminal stations. If there is appetite for this - one possibly radical option - would be a near circular simulation with the S&C, Little North Western and Cumbrian Coast routes combined. Including Hellifield to Daisyfield would allow chaining with (assuming they are developed) - Leeds North Western, Preston and Carlisle. Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 16:38 by Andrew G Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Jan |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:34 #79990 | |
madaboutrains
316 posts |
I drew this a while ago now.
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:36 #79991 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
I drew this a while ago
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:38 #79992 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
 I drew this a while back now. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:39 #79993 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
I drew this a while ago now.
Post has attachments. Log in to view them. RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:42 #79995 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
I drew this a while ago
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 16:43 by madaboutrains Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:45 #79996 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
I drew this a while ago now.
Post has attachments. Log in to view them. RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 16:55 #79997 | |
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JamesN
1626 posts |
" said:I drew this a while ago now.Did you draw a microscope to go with it? :silly: Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Trainfan344, 320322, tjfrancis |
| Settle and Carlisle 20/01/2016 at 17:35 #79998 | |
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madaboutrains
316 posts |
It compressed it. where can I upload it to be viewed larger?
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 21/01/2016 at 09:18 #80021 | |
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kbarber
1779 posts |
" said:
Back in the day, virtually all refuge sidings (lie by, in Midland Railway terminology) were single-ended sidings with a trailing connection to the main running line. Drawing forward to set back into the lie-by was standard practice, done many times each day on the busier routes. Only really changed when motor points became available. Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 21/01/2016 at 11:55 #80024 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2107 posts 
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I believe there was some kind of limit on the distance facing points could be operated from the signal box at one time, hence some mid-size stations had small signal boxes at either end rather than one bigger one. This would affect goods loops too.
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| Settle and Carlisle 21/01/2016 at 14:33 #80026 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
The BOT imposed a 350 yard limit for mechanical points from 1925 onwards, with more stringent restrictions at earlier dates. (The limit was admittedly on passenger lines only, but the entrance to a goods loop from a main line would count) Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 25/01/2016 at 10:50 #80116 | |
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kbarber
1779 posts |
The limit on distances for operation of facing points led, in some cases, to very large numbers of signalboxes very close together. In some cases, communication during block failure could virtually have been by shouting to each other! As you can imagine, signalling was complex with multiple slotting of distants, not uncommon to have stop signals slotted as well, bolt locking of points (box A has to pull a release before B can work the points) and lots of other such delights. It often added to the complexity of the block working as well (link to the 'Communication between Control Station' thread), with special bell signals for all sorts of shunting moves in the local instructions on top of such standard things as blocking back in short sections and authorisations of regulations (shunting forward, for example, or working in reverse, Reg 31 and 32 respectively). Apparently, at Marylebone before the 1967 resignalling, signalmen would be 'blocking back' 80 times or so a day between Passenger and Goods Junction boxes. Log in to reply |
| Settle and Carlisle 25/01/2016 at 14:51 #80121 | |
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Westrail
26 posts |
Write the book please it will be fascinating reading Kbarber
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| Settle and Carlisle 26/01/2016 at 09:28 #80130 | |
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kbarber
1779 posts |
" said:Write the book please it will be fascinating reading Kbarber Me and my big mouth 
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