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| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 07:58 #94059 | |
BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
Hi all, Have recently began to operate an area with a C2 line (specifically the Westerleigh Oil Terminal Branch) and whilst I'm aware of the rules and regs, I was wondering if anyone could provide me with details of why it's called C2 working, how it came about and just any other related info. For anyone not in the know a C2 line is a single line with a Person In Charge. The PIC is the only person responsible for allowing movements onto the C2 line. Once the train is clear of the C2 line they must report that to the PIC, who may then authorise a second movement. Obviously the usual Block rules apply of one train, one section, one time. Many thanks in advance! Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 09:40 #94061 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
An unfounded guess, but it may derive from the relevant rule in one version or another of the rulebook, similar to a T3 possession or a K3-exempt signal (old Rule 55).
Last edited: 24/03/2017 at 09:41 by Danny252 Reason: Wording Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 15:15 #94068 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
BoxBoyKit in post 94059 said:Hi all,Not the Rule Book but the Sectional Appendix, section C2, hence the name. I think it's a Western thing, but I may be wrong on that. Kev Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 15:48 #94071 | |
postal
5265 posts |
KymriskaDraken in post 94068 said:Not the Rule Book but the Sectional Appendix, section C2, hence the name. I think it's a Western thing, but I may be wrong on that.The relevant section of the SA shows: LINES WORKED UNDER THE CONTROL OF A PERSON IN CHARGE (THE C2 SYSTEM) Normal method of working The lines concerned and the post nominated to carry out the duties of Person in Charge are listed in the following table. No train must enter or foul the C2 section concerned without the Person in Charge’s authority. On single lines, only one movement at a time may be authorised by the Person in Charge. On double lines, only one movement in the right direction over each line at a time may be authorised by the Person in Charge. Where a telephone is not provided at 'B' (as shown in the following table), the train or locomotive(s) must return to ‘A’ immediately work is finished. Where a telephone is provided at 'B' the Driver must: • tell the Person in Charge when the train has arrived complete and is clear of the C2 section at 'B', and • get the Person in Charge’s permission before the train again occupies the C2 section, whether for shunting purposes or to return from 'B'. Siding connections within the C2 section must be kept secured in the normal position for straight running, either by clip and padlock or by padlocking the point lever. The Guard or Shunter of any movement that is to work in the sidings must obtain the keys from the Person in Charge (or, where authorised, obtain his permission to take the keys from their usual place). When movements over the points have finished, the Guard or Shunter must make sure that the points are replaced to normal and properly secured again. On arrival back at ‘A’, the Guard or Shunter must return the keys to the Person in Charge (or, where authorised, put the keys back in the usual place and tell the Person in Charge). Failure of telephone at ‘B’ If the telephone (where provided) at 'B' fails and no other communication is available, the Person in Charge must give each Driver a written authority to leave ‘A’, to enter the C2 section and to return to ‘A’ immediately work has finished. If,telephone failure at ‘B’ is discovered only after a train has left 'A', the Driver must obtain the Person in Charge’s permission by the most expeditious means before returning from 'B'. The Person in Charge may issue a written authority for one train at a time only between ‘A’ and ‘B’, whether on a single or a double line. No further movement may be authorised until the Person in Charge is sure that the previous movement has arrived back at ‘A’ and is clear of the C2 section. On a double line, all movements must continue to operate on the proper line throughout, unless Working by Pilotman is in operation. Train failure, accident, fire or accidental division When Rule Book, Modules M1 or M2 require protection of the train, "full distance" for emergency protection on a C2 line is 800 metres (or half a mile). On lines without a telephone at 'B', protection need only be carried out in the direction of 'A'. When one line of a C2 double line is not available When one line is blocked by obstruction or other cause, Single Line Working (Rule Book Module P1) must be introduced. A Pilotman must be provided and must accompany every train. Possession or Protection of C2 line for engineering work or other activity Whenever possible, the possession / protection arrangements must be pre-planned and published as for other running lines. Rule Book, Module TS1, Regulation 13 additional protection procedures involving disconnecting signalling equipment, T-CODs or getting the token are prohibited on C2 lines. Stop boards at the start/ end of the C2 section, including those provided at intermediate sidings, must be regarded as ‘stop signals’ for protection purposes. If a telephone is provided at ‘B’, or if there are intermediate sidings, any protection required under TS1, Regulation 13 or T3 must be provided there as well as at ‘A’ unless the PICOP/ COSS/ PC can confirm with the Person in Charge of the line that there are no traction units at those locations. If no telephone is provided at ‘B’, it is only necessary to provide protection at the ‘A’ end. The PICOP/ COSS/ PC/ IWA (as appropriate) must contact the Person in Charge of the line and reach a clear understanding as to the time the possession/ protection is required and by when it must be given up. Provided that no train is in the C2 section, the Person in Charge of the line may grant the possession/ protection. The standard “Record of Arrangements” forms must be used, suitably endorsed to show the appropriate stop boards where signals are not provided. The Person in Charge of the line must record the necessary details in the book provided, and if practicable the PICOP/ COSS/ PC/ IWA must countersign the entry.If additional protection is to be provided by detonator protection or for T3 possessions, the Person in Charge of the line need not be on duty at the time possession/protection is taken or when it is given up, provided that arrangements have previously been made for: j) The Person in charge of the line, when leaving duty, to leave written authority in the book provided for the line to be blocked, and/ or (as appropriate) k) The PICOP/ COSS/ PC, when giving up the possession/ protection, to leave a certificate indicating that the line is clear and safe for traffic. On resuming duty, the Person in Charge of the line must find out if the work is continuing unless the certificate referred to in (b) has been issued. Authority for movements to, from and within a T3 possession on a C2 line must be on the same principles as for any other running line. Recording of all movements The Person in Charge must record the times at which each train enters and clears the C2 section in the book (or special sheets) provided. Table C2 – list of lines From 'A' To 'B' Double or Telephone at 'B'? Person in Charge Additional Single line? instructions Yate South Junction Westerleigh Single Yes Bristol Signaller See Local Instructions Alexandra Dock Jn Newport Docks Single Yes Person in Charge Alexandra Dock Jn Pengam Jn Tidal/ Double Yes Tidal Sidings Person Marshalling Siding in Charge Margam (signals Port Talbot Docks Double Yes Port Talbot Signaller PT.3487/PT.3488) Gulf Oil Branch Jn Waterston (GO Single No Clarbeston Road Jn See Local Refinery) Signaller Instructions Herbrandston Jn Robeston Sidings Single Yes Clarbeston Road Jn See Local Signaller Instructions “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 24/03/2017 at 15:55 by postal Reason: edit Log in to reply The following users said thank you: geswedey, Steamer, BarryM |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 16:10 #94073 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
But sadly it isn't listed under a section C2, unless it refers to an older BR or GWR Sectional Appendix?
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| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 16:35 #94074 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
BoxBoyKit in post 94073 said:But sadly it isn't listed under a section C2, unless it refers to an older BR or GWR Sectional Appendix?It is listed on the 5th. Page of the General Instructions Table of Contents. The title is "Lines Worked Under the Control of a Person in Charge (The C2 System)". It is the April 2009 copy of the SA using the Table of Contents in the 03/12/16 Supplement to the SA. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: JamesN |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 16:48 #94075 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
I'm aware of that, but my original question is why is it called "C2"? Where did that name come from?
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| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 17:03 #94076 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
Have now discovered it originated from a 60s era Sectional Appendix... just need to find one now!
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| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 18:41 #94082 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
BoxBoyKit in post 94075 said:I'm aware of that, but my original question is why is it called "C2"? Where did that name come from?So I've wasted best part of an hour in digging out the information and posting it to answer another part of your original question "and just any other related info" when you didn't really want that information? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 24/03/2017 at 21:56 #94083 | |
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Airvan00
129 posts |
When I read the initial post I understood the Poster was asking for the origin of the meaning of the phrase C2 as he worked on the job and fully understood the rules but was asking how the title for the rules came about. You research was not in vain as we all now know the rules (as well as the origin for the general name for the rules)
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| What is a C2 Line? 25/03/2017 at 08:30 #94093 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
My apologies, Postal, but As AirVan00 said I did state in my original post that I knew the rules and regs concerning them. However, prior to working it I had never heard of C2 working so would certainly have found your post useful, as I'm sure others will now so I'm sure your searching wasn't in vein!
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| What is a C2 Line? 25/03/2017 at 08:42 #94094 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
Intriguing that the line has a separate classification but in many of the remaining instances the person in charge is the signaller anyway. I'm guessing that once upon a time the number of C2 lines would be much higher? Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 25/03/2017 at 17:08 #94097 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts 
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There were some in the Thames Valley I believe. It's also possible that when they were busier a PIC would have been appointed who was not the Signaller. Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 25/03/2017 at 18:21 #94102 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
Stephen Fulcher in post 94097 said:There were some in the Thames Valley I believe.Staines West / Colnbrook branch was C2 working once West Drayton SB closed in the 70s until control transferred from Slough PSB to TVSC Hayes desk in Dec 2013. I have an inkling that Southcote - Reading Central Goods was also C2 working, would need to check some old publications to be sure. Log in to reply |
| What is a C2 Line? 25/03/2017 at 18:42 #94105 | |
Andrew G
552 posts
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JamesN in post 94102 said:Here is a view of the diagram used to control the line. https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/5756061162/in/album-72157626797686822/ Log in to reply The following users said thank you: JamesN, Stephen Fulcher, Hawk777 |