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| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 09:41 #101883 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, I'm in the process of compiling a 1977 Peterborough Mon-Sat timetable using Peter Bennet's FO timetable as a base. I was around in the operation railway industry from 1969 though to 2005 when I retired and have a recollection that, in the 70s and 80s, sleeper trains were restricted to 75mph for the comfort of those trying to get some shut-eye, in the same way that TPO trains were restricted to 80mph. However, the timings in the WTT do not seem to reflect this. Running at 75mph the sleepers lose time. I've done an extensive trawl around and can't find anything on the subject. Is there anyone with a long memory who can help with this? Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 23/09/2017 at 09:41 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 10:44 #101884 | |
norman B
111 posts |
I was around in the 70s through to the 90s with various regions and seem to recall that 80mph was a truer figure at that time. I will try and dig through some old material over this weekend. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 10:56 #101885 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
Just to add that whilst this figure was often quoted ,in the event of late running the speed was often increased over sections of track with limited curvature.
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| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 11:05 #101886 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
I thought they were limited to 80 mph. Ah: Nuneaton 1975 accident report has some information. The line speed in the area was 100 mph except a short 50 mph at Nuneaton and the 20 mph TSR that caused the derailment. On the day, 1P54, the Barrow sleeper, was doing 90 mph before slowing for the speed restriction. On the day before, 1S26, the Glasgow sleeper that crashed, was doing 90 mph after Rugby before slowing. On the day 1S26 had a loco failure and had to wait for a spare to be attached to the front, so was behind time. To quote: "The authorised maximum speed of the train was 90 mile/h: all the sleeping car coaches were permitted to run at 100 mile/h but the two bogie brake vans in the train were limited to 90 mile/h. The normal timings of most night sleeper trains are so arranged that a speed of 80 mile/h need not be exceeded but McKay knew that in order to make up lost time he was allowed to use the train's maximum permissible speed." Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 11:34 #101887 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Clive & Norman B, Thank you both for that - its just what I was looking for. I've re-run the sim with the first of the sleepers 1S60 (2000 KX - Aberdeen) now 80mph, and the time loss is minimal - a minute and half between Hitchin and Peterborough which I can "adjust" bringing the entry time forward just a smidgen. Strangely, no time is lost at all north of Peterborough! Regards Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 15:20 #101891 | |
58050
2659 posts |
All sleeper services & newspaper trains with sorters on ran at 80mph. This was so those travelling in the coaches didn't get bounced around. IIRC even today the sleepers run at 80mph, although they tend to be rather lax timings on them back in BR days.
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| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 16:17 #101893 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
The Newcastle - Bristol Mail/Sleeper/Pax train did not get much above 70mph even when it ran in the 1970s.The timing of this train had a considerable amount of station time at all main stops.I can remember one journey spending the journey talking to footplate men travelling pax and sharing a brew with them at Gloucester. This service was very much a journey running for the Post Office with the other portions added to get some other revenue.The post office staff all came fron Tyneside and in order to be in position in Bristol at the start of the working week they all travelled down by mini-bus. Just a small insight into some of the strange happenings at that time. Last edited: 23/09/2017 at 16:18 by norman B Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 16:22 #101894 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Your not going to find it easy working out the exact formation of any of the trains for 1977 without the actual Passenger Train Marshalling Book for that period. Even then there are variations subject to when during the year the timetable you are working on actually is. I've scanned 2 pages from my copy of the 1977 ECML Passenger Train Marshalling Book referring specifically to 1S79 23.35 SX King's Cross - Edinburgh Waverley 'NIGHT SCOTSMAN'. There's one formation that applies up to 23rd Sept. 1977 & I've also scanned the SO formation which ran from 11th June until 24th Sept. 1977 & 1S79 23.35 SX King's Cross - Edinburgh Waverley 'NIGHT SCOTSMAN' which applies from 26th Sept. 1977 & the formations are all different. So take your pick:-
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| 1970s Sleeper Trains. 23/09/2017 at 16:23 #101895 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
58050 in post 101891 said:All sleeper services & newspaper trains with sorters on ran at 80mph. This was so those travelling in the coaches didn't get bounced around. IIRC even today the sleepers run at 80mph, although they tend to be rather lax timings on them back in BR days.Timed for 80, but authorised for 100 if the need arises. I understand that the southbound 'Highland', which is the second of the two going south, is required to run faster than 80mph south of Rugby to keep out of the way of the morning Pendolinos. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |