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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions'

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Oxford PSB > ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions'

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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 14:26 #103204
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Running the 1978 WO TT, ECS 5A07 0008 DCS - Reading, 5B11 0230 DCS - Oxford and 5A01 0348 DCS - Oxford all show in the F2 window as 'Held by conditions' Sim time is now 0504. What does 'Held by conditions' mean, and are these trains ever likely to enter because of this?

Regards,

Phil.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 14:58 #103206
Chromatix
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190 posts 		It means that there's an "extra rule" in the TT to prevent those trains from moving until some condition is fulfilled. This might be in the form "train X must wait until N minutes after train Y arrived at location Z".

Recent Loader versions summarise the rule in the train list, rather than just stating that a condition exists.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 15:05 #103207
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		5A07 is now 5hrs late. The only move in or out of the DCS before then is 5A48 at 0005. I've just started a fresh sim now running on Tuesday, and 5A07 is held by conditions again.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 15:49 #103212
JamesN
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1608 posts
Online 		Held by conditions isn’t to do with rules - it’s conditions in the simulation code that allow the train to depart. Are the points in the DCS (roundel at bottom of screen) set correctly for the move you are trying to make?
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The following user said thank you: whatlep
ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 16:17 #103216
Bobby
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22 posts 		I am having the same problem. 5A07 was put into siding 2 and the points have not been changed but the train just sits there 'Held By Conditions'. It will shunt forward presumably up to the signal, but even though signal has cleared, stops and its status changes back to 'Held By Conditions'.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 17:46 #103218
sunocske
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121 posts 		Same here. However, some of the trains do call me up they ready to go. Others held by conditions, but if you abandon their timetable, they start to move off. Then reassign their TT with the next location set to Oxford, and they will do their job.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 18:35 #103222
GeoffM
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6376 posts 		Can you attach a saved game please?
SimSig Boss
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 23/11/2017 at 18:41 #103225
whatlep
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377 posts 		Phil-jmw in post 103204 said:
Running the 1978 WO TT, ECS 5A07 0008 DCS - Reading, 5B11 0230 DCS - Oxford and 5A01 0348 DCS - Oxford all show in the F2 window as 'Held by conditions' Sim time is now 0504. What does 'Held by conditions' mean, and are these trains ever likely to enter because of this?

Regards,

Phil.
Phil

As stated on the timetable's intro tab, there is a problem with the Oxford 2000 simulation which causes this situation when multiple trains are in any of DCS2-4 at any time. The developers don't have plans to offer a fix as the 1978 timetable is outside the parameters of the simulation. That seems a shame to me, but the developers clearly have many tasks on the go.

The thing to do with all the early reversals in Oxford pre-2000 simulations is to run trains into one of: DCS1, the down carriage/goods line or even the down main if conditions allow. The simulation will then "understand" what is going on and the trains will work fine.

If you have specific questions about the 1978 timetable's operation, it's probably best to post them in the "timetables" section of the forum.

Good luck!

Whatlep (Peter Whatley)
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 24/11/2017 at 10:43 #103274
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Hi Geoff,

Please find attached a saved sim as requested. This is the Wednesday sim I originally commented on with three trains held by conditions.


Regards,

Phil.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 24/11/2017 at 10:47 #103275
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		James,

The trains concerned do not show in the F2 screen which road they are on so it's difficult to know which road to set the points for. I did wonder if the lie of the handpoints may be the issue so I tried leaving the points set for roads 2, 3 and 4 for a few minutes each but nothing moved and nothing called up ready to depart.


Regards,

Phil.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 24/11/2017 at 11:20 #103276
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		sunocske in post 103218 said:
Same here. However, some of the trains do call me up they ready to go. Others held by conditions, but if you abandon their timetable, they start to move off. Then reassign their TT with the next location set to Oxford, and they will do their job.
I've done as you did and things are moving now.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 24/11/2017 at 13:32 #103281
whatlep
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377 posts 		Phil-jmw in post 103275 said:
James,

The trains concerned do not show in the F2 screen which road they are on so it's difficult to know which road to set the points for. I did wonder if the lie of the handpoints may be the issue so I tried leaving the points set for roads 2, 3 and 4 for a few minutes each but nothing moved and nothing called up ready to depart.


Regards,

Phil.
Phil

The starting positions for the three trains seeded in the DCS are:
DCS2 - 5A63 (07.50 departure)
DCS3 - 5A37 (06.05 departure)
DCS4 - 5A33 (06.54 departure)

Each will call up from OX127 when ready to depart UNLESS another train has been routed into one of the three sidings in the intervening period. This is a known bug/issue with the simulation itself. It also occurs at any time if more than one train is routed into any of DCS2-4 as a group (not just the same road) in 2000 mode. A further bug/ issue is that you cannot use DCS2-4 to run-round locomotives.

DCS1 and the down carriage/ goods line work OK with multiple trains, EXCEPT that you cannot exit DCS1 northbound. Again a simulation issue.

As you may have seen in another thread, Geoff Mayo has solicited ideas for enhancements to the Oxford simulation. While there's no guarantee that all suggestions will be acted upon, I'm hoping that at least the DCS, South Yard and Loco Sidings ones will be fixed. As an aside, there are two of us who have timetables created for Oxford and at least 3 more are in draft, but on hold pending further news of enhancements to the Oxford simulation.
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ECS In Oxford Down CS 'Held By Conditions' 24/11/2017 at 13:51 #103282
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		whatlep in post 103281 said:
Phil-jmw in post 103275 said:
James,

The trains concerned do not show in the F2 screen which road they are on so it's difficult to know which road to set the points for. I did wonder if the lie of the handpoints may be the issue so I tried leaving the points set for roads 2, 3 and 4 for a few minutes each but nothing moved and nothing called up ready to depart.


Regards,

Phil.
Phil

The starting positions for the three trains seeded in the DCS are:
DCS2 - 5A63 (07.50 departure)
DCS3 - 5A37 (06.05 departure)
DCS4 - 5A33 (06.54 departure)

Each will call up from OX127 when ready to depart UNLESS another train has been routed into one of the three sidings in the intervening period. This is a known bug/issue with the simulation itself. It also occurs at any time if more than one train is routed into any of DCS2-4 as a group (not just the same road) in 2000 mode. A further bug/ issue is that you cannot use DCS2-4 to run-round locomotives.

DCS1 and the down carriage/ goods line work OK with multiple trains, EXCEPT that you cannot exit DCS1 northbound. Again a simulation issue.

As you may have seen in another thread, Geoff Mayo has solicited ideas for enhancements to the Oxford simulation. While there's no guarantee that all suggestions will be acted upon, I'm hoping that at least the DCS, South Yard and Loco Sidings ones will be fixed. As an aside, there are two of us who have timetables created for Oxford and at least 3 more are in draft, but on hold pending further news of enhancements to the Oxford simulation.
The three later departures listed here worked fine, but the three I referred to in my original post were held by conditions and would only move when I abandoned their TT's then reinstated them after they started moving.
Last edited: 24/11/2017 at 13:53 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given
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