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| 1987 timetable 15/12/2017 at 16:56 #104026 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
Please post any comments or issues with Pascal's 1987 Peak District timetable here. Kev Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 16/12/2017 at 11:38 #104104 | |
Danny252
1461 posts |
I note that the uncoupled bankers from Peak Forest have a nearly instant "join" time. Is this realistic? I'd have thought there would be a brief delay to allow some sort of communication to confirm the banker was ready, but perhaps not. On the other hand, I guess there is the delay to receive "right away", which already covers the delays between guard and driver. Last edited: 16/12/2017 at 11:39 by Danny252 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 16/12/2017 at 11:59 #104105 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
Danny252 in post 104104 said:I note that the uncoupled bankers from Peak Forest have a nearly instant "join" time. Is this realistic? I'd have thought there would be a brief delay to allow some sort of communication to confirm the banker was ready, but perhaps not.In reality the trains don't stop and the banker just buffers up to the train, and then drops off at the top of the grade. SimSig doesn't allow joins and splits on the move so we made the banker joins and splits last just 1 second. Kev Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| 1987 timetable 02/01/2018 at 00:21 #104704 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
A revised version of the timetable has been pushed so please check for updates. The new version fixes a couple of minor errors, and adds suffixes to train headcodes on the Buxton - Hazel Grove line to make it easier to tell trains apart when they are running with the same headcode (as per WTT!). Kev Last edited: 02/01/2018 at 00:38 by headshot119 Reason: Deleted by moderator Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 12:15 #104876 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
Version 1.2 of the timetable was pushed via Check for Updates the other day. The new version adjusts the workings of the Peak Forest banker, 0T83, so that instead of going in and out of the Peak Forest Sorting Sidings, it will live on Peak Forest Up Siding number 1. I forgot to edit the timetables for 0A00 - the day of the week seed engine. This should run into Peak Forest South SS to exit the sim rather than going onto Up Siding No. 1. This will be fixed in the next release. I've also rewritten some of the timetable notes, so please read these carefully. Also, a couple of trains have timetable notes - click the "Notes" button in the timetable window to read these. Kev Last edited: 07/01/2018 at 12:19 by KymriskaDraken Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 12:20 #104877 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
Timetable notes for v1.2. Notes ===== Peak Forest Up Sidings =================== Peak Forest No.1 Siding is shown as Peak Forest Up Sidings in the timetable. Sidings 2-4 are Peak Forest South S.S. Banking between Great Rocks and Peak Forest ====================================== Several trains require a banker between Great Rocks Jn and Peak Forest because of the steep 1 in 90 gradient. One or two trains are banked from the Long Siding at Peak Forest. The banking engine comes from Buxton TMD in time to work its first train and returns there after completing its work. During the day it stables on Up Siding No 1. When required the banker will run to Great Rocks Jn and wait behind GR12 for its train - a token is required for this. The train requiring the banker will stop with the rear of the train inside GR6 signal (you will probably need to clear GR14 so that the train fits). Once it has stopped, cancel the route from GR14. Once the route has timed out (60 secs) you may clear GR12 and the banker will join on to the back of the train. This takes just 1 second as IRL the trains don't actually stop. Once the banker has attached, the train will proceed to Peak Forest and stop with it's rear inside PF45 signal (again, you will probably need to clear PF19 for the train to get in clear). The banker will then detatch (1 second again) and go into Peak Forest Up Siding, while the train will continue. Trains requiring a banker from the Long Siding are banked by the Peak Forest pilot engine. That engine hauls the train out of the sidings, into the Long Sidings, where the train engine joins onto its rear. The train is then hauled to PF45, with the pilot on the back. It will stop, as before, with the rear clear of PF45 and the pilot will detatch and run into the sidings. Buxton Relief Sidings ================ 7T88 seeds on the arrival road, and is at the far end of the siding from the junction so that there is 40m available which can be used to reverse another train if the loop line is occupied. Buxton Midde Siding ================ The Middle Siding at Buxton is used throughout the day to stable light engines. Care must be taken to ensure that the engines ar enot trapped by a later departure! Snowplough - Bad Weather scenario only ================================= 1Z99 is a snowplough that will appear at a random time from Buxrton TMD if the Bad Weather scenario is selected..Be aware that this train has long dwell times at New Mills South DGL, Hazel Grove Sidings (both 30 minutes) and Buxton Middle Siding (3 hours). Other dwell times are a couple of minutes for reversing. If the middle siding is occupied by light engines, the snowplough can use Platform 1 instead. The train does not have a timetabled path so it is up to the Signalman to work the train as best as he can. Hazel Grove ========== Some ECS trains shunt from the Up platform to the Down, via the sidings. Other trains arrive in the Down platform from Edgeley Jn - read the trimetable carefully! On Track Machines ================ There is a variety of On Track Machines that work around the area during the night shift. These do not require any special handlingl, except for the Tamper and Regulator that work on Tuesdays and Thursdays. These trains work in a posession (not simulated) between Chapel-en-le-Frith and Disley in the Down direction. You may need to instruct the Regulator to pass the starters at Chapel-en-le-Frith (CH6) and Furness Vale (FV8) at Danger. The Furness Vale home signal (FV6) can be worked to simulate the level crossing having a handsignalman. Note that when working the Tamper and Regulator have a maximum speed of 5mph so do not lower the level crossing barriers at Furness Vale until the machine has arrived at the home signal. FREIGHT TRAIN TAGGING ====================== 352 - Warrington Arpley 38B - Ince 38C - Birkenhead 44F - Sleaford 45B - Sandy 462 - Whitemoor 46V - Whittlesea 48D - Dereham 49E - Diss 492 - Ipswich 49Q - Parkeston Quay Timetable written by Peter Griffin Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Phil-jmw, BarryM, 58050, bossman |
| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 14:21 #104879 | |
58050
2659 posts 
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With some assistance from Stewie Kev don't forget that.
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| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 17:58 #104880 | |
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John 23
176 posts |
I have a problem with 0T83 after its first appearance. It sits and waits in No 1 siding, but doesn't move into its new iteration for the 0354 departure. This means it cannot bank 7J18. Whilst the join can be aborted, the uncoupling of the banker at 45 cannot. Last edited: 07/01/2018 at 18:07 by John 23 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 18:06 #104881 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
John 23 in post 104880 said:I have a problem with 0T83 after its first appearance. It sits and waits in No 1 siding, but doesn't move into its new iteration for the 0354 departure.There are decisions that decide what the next working will be. I think the decision is made before the train or engine to work it enters the sim, so it might be a while before the banker knows what it's going to be. In this case the decision is based on 7J18 so shortly before that train enters the banker should form the next working. It should be 0T83ZBNKR if 7J18 is worked by 2 x Cl.31/2 locos, or 0T83ZBNKRZ if 7J18 is worked by a Cl. 45. Kev Last edited: 07/01/2018 at 18:10 by KymriskaDraken Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 07/01/2018 at 18:08 #104882 | |
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John 23
176 posts |
See also my revised post 
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 08:09 #104887 | |
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sunocske
121 posts |
The same for me. 0T83 is sitting "At buffer stop" (as shown in the train list), and keep calling me for what to do (wait 2/5/15 minutes more or reverse). I would attach a save when I'm back at home in the evening.
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 08:52 #104888 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
That's a slight sim bug, fixed and will be uploaded as soon as Geoff or Karl are available to do so
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 12:08 #104896 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
I had an issue with 0T83, in that because I had put 0A00 in Up Sdg No.1 when I started the sim, when I dropped 0T83 in on top after its first banking move it could not complete its movement to the buffer stops (train 0A00 in front) and would therefore not pick up its next working at 0354. I had to manually allocate it. It would appear from this that Up Sdg No.1 must be kept clear and reserved solely for the banker in order for it to pick up its next workings automatically. I have another question regarding the banking loco (or an movement for that matter) reversing at Great Rocks 12/23/28 Sigs. I am only able to reverse 0T83 at GR12 signal on the single line, as if I offer it to either Tunstead Sdgs or Tunstead Reception to go behind 23 or 28 signals if the single line is occupied it is declined because it's not booked to go to either location. Is it the practice in real life that the banker can/could only reverse behind GR12 signal or does Tunstead allow movements they're not expecting to reverse behind 23 and 28 signals? Regards, Phil. Last edited: 08/01/2018 at 12:09 by Phil-jmw Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 12:29 #104899 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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I would have thought it could reverse at any of those locations you mentioned whether signalled or not In real life the signalman at Great Rocks Jn would advise the traincrew of what the move would be if it was not the usual move However when I wrote the timetable it made it easier to reverse it at GR signal With theregards to it reversing at the other locations Noel as the sim developer would be the person to answer that
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 12:36 #104900 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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There is a remarkable issue in the 1987 timetable in reference to the banker In the trip notice T.83 trip is shown to be a Cl.45/0 & the trip workings show it to act as the banker. However Cl.45/Cl.46 locos were barred from banking at Bromsgrove & Stourbridge due to those locos having there buffers fixed to the bogies as ooposed to other locos like Cl.47, Cl.58, Cl.56 etc etc having there buffers fixed to the locos framework.
Last edited: 08/01/2018 at 12:38 by 58050 Reason: corrected typos Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 16:26 #104901 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
58050 in post 104900 said:There is a remarkable issue in the 1987 timetable in reference to the banker In the trip notice T.83 trip is shown to be a Cl.45/0 & the trip workings show it to act as the banker. However Cl.45/Cl.46 locos were barred from banking at Bromsgrove & Stourbridge due to those locos having there buffers fixed to the bogies as ooposed to other locos like Cl.47, Cl.58, Cl.56 etc etc having there buffers fixed to the locos framework.Strange given how class 76s banked the Worsborough incline daily their whole lives without any issue relating to this. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 16:38 #104902 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Yes Joe, but Cl.76 locos had there buffers fixed to the framework of the loco & not actually on the buffers like the Peaks had. That's the reason why they weren't allowed to carry out banking duties. When I've got 5 minutes I'll try & find out from some people I know who worked in The West Midlands for over 40 years. Having said all this I'm struggling to remjember ever seeing a photo of a Peak carrying out 'banking' duties. Now whether this restriction was just to the West Midlands or across the country I don't know (yet). The only reason I can think of is there must be a risk of the leading bogie on Cl.44, Cl.45 & Cl.46 locos becoming derailed as all the weight as against the leading bogie as opposed to the lovo's framework. Last edited: 08/01/2018 at 16:40 by 58050 Reason: Added text Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 16:56 #104903 | |
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MarkC
1105 posts |
From a bit of research I have just been undertaking it seems that the buffers on the Class 76 were bogie mounted Railways Archive And The London & North Eastern Railway Encyclopedia Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 17:26 #104905 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Well on the technical drawings in Locomotives Illustrated No.215 DC Electric Locos the drawings of the Cl.76 shows the buffers fixed to a bed plate off the main loco framework & not the bogie.
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 17:57 #104908 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Just for the record these technical drawings are from the actual BR M&EE technical drawing book for Electric Locomotives & I've scanned the 3 drawings for the Cl.76 which shows the buffers attached to a bed plate which isn't attached to the locos bogies.
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 18:19 #104909 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
Looking through photos on flickr pre-1995 or so, the vast majority show Class 37s on banking duties (e.g. link), with some 47s (e.g.link). I've yet to find any photos or videos actually showing a Cl. 45/46 banking, but I have found a few captions which claim one was involved in such activities (e.g. link).
Last edited: 08/01/2018 at 18:20 by Danny252 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 18:58 #104910 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Well like you Danny I can't recall ever seeing a Peak being used on banker duties. Hymeks, Cl.47, Cl.37, Cl.25, Cl.31 & Cl.20 yes. Looking at the technical drawingsa for Cl.40 locos they to are like Peaks with the buffers attached to the bogies. I'll have to trawl through some of my Sectional & General Appendixes to see if that sheds any light. Obviously for timetableing purposes I've used what is actually printed in the Trip Notice as being the booked motive power for that particular turn & whilst chatting to another railwayman on the phone earlier the only reason we could find for the fact that a Peak could be used between Great Rocks Jn & Peak Forest was because in distance terms it isn't that long unlike the Lickey Incline.
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| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 21:17 #104911 | |
postal
5264 posts
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58050 in post 104908 said:Just for the record these technical drawings are from the actual BR M&EE technical drawing book for Electric Locomotives & I've scanned the 3 drawings for the Cl.76 which shows the buffers attached to a bed plate which isn't attached to the locos bogies.Pascal I think we are seeing different things in the drawings. As far as I can see your first attachment shows exactly the same as the general arrangement drawing appended to the official Metropolitan Vickers booklet MarkC has linked at Railways Archive. If I am seeing things correctly, these both show the buffers being mounted directly on the front of the bogie. I can't see any direct connection between the frame to which the buffers are attached and the main frame of the locomotive. Your second two attachments don't show as much detail and it is impossible to see the exact configuration in them. If you look at the photograph linked here there is a head-on shot of one of the locos at a slip crossing and you can see that the buffers are slightly displaced from the centre line of the loco to follow the track of the bogie rather than square on as they would be if attached to the mainframe. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 08/01/2018 at 21:20 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 21:45 #104912 | |
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MarkC
1105 posts |
Also on page 5 of the first link (Railways Archive) I posted it states "The Bo-Bo locomotive bogies are connected to one another by an articulating joint at their inner ends and the outer ends carry the headstocks with draw and buffer gear. All draw and buffering shocks are therefore transmitted though the bogies." And in the second link "The London & North Eastern Railway Encyclopedia" "Contemporary accounts note that the EM1 had an unusual design. The two 4-wheel bogies were linked by a coupling. The drawgear and buffers were mounted on the outer ends of the bogies, resulting in no transmission of traction or braking forces through the locomotive body" Log in to reply |
| 1987 timetable 08/01/2018 at 21:52 #104913 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
There's only one real answer to this. I suggest we meet at the NRM, inspect the class 76 they have, then adjourn to the York Tap! "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: KymriskaDraken, tjfrancis, postal, John 23 |
