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| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 20/02/2018 at 00:45 #106030 | |
whatlep
377 posts |
This thread is for any comments on, or corrections to, the April 1989 suite of timetables, released in full on Feb 18th, 2018. There were two objectives in creating timetables from April 1989: 1) to enable more use of the MPSCC simulation: solo or with fewer users than the standard supplied timetables 2) to provide a simulation of Manchester's railway scene before the events of 1989-1992 changed it utterly Four timetables are provided: The Northern Part - 1 user - includes just the lines to & from Manchester Victoria, plus the few trains which used the Windsor Link and Ordall Lane - Castlefield Jn sections of line. V1.1 contains an unusually large number of changes from V1.0 due to finding a source for WTT updates which reflected MPSCC's opening in October 1988 and the associated closure of the Fallowfield loop freight route. The changes are given in detail in an attached file. The Oxford Road Part - 1/2 user(s) - includes all trains passing through Oxford Road. The main focus is on the intensive service to/from Altrincham which until May 1989 included fast services on the Chester route. Trains will run "block and block" in the rush hour with fast trains catching the locals as they approach Manchester. One user can handle this simulation, but rush-hour traffic is extremely tricky with 13 trains per hour in each direction through Oxford Road and multiple junctions at which to correctly schedule incoming trains. A second user covering the Longsight/ Piccadilly area is handy then. Updated to V1.1 on 18/02/2018 with 3 additional trains. The Southern Part - 1 to 3 users - everything not covered by the Northern Part! All trains to/from Piccadilly and Oxford Road. Not quite as horrendous as it may seem, as the main part of Piccadilly station was much less intensively used than the through platforms. One user can just about cope, but splitting the load between 2 or even 3 users will make the simulation more relaxing. V1.0 issued on 18/02/2018 The Whole Picture - 2 to 4 users. Does exactly what you'd expect. V1.0 issued on 18/02/2018 There are various known issues which are detailed in each timetable. Two affect locos detached at Manchester Piccadilly's platform 5 and attaching to trains in platform 9. The relevant timetables suggest work-rounds for these two issues. Platform 9's rush-hour use also has issues due to the mismatch between SimSig's 1990 trackplan and what was actually in place between October 1988 and Christmas 1998. The correct trackplan is shown in an attached extract from the original, October 8th 1988, MPSCC resignalling notice. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 22/02/2018 at 18:48 #106078 | |
zachpratt
25 posts |
Thanks for this time table! I'm a huge fan of the 80s era. It is a tough one!
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| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 23/02/2018 at 14:30 #106096 | |
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slatteryc
254 posts |
Agree - Picc is one of the hardest single player jobs I've ever tried , only wimbledon no ARS and VIC SE no ARS come close
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| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 21:21 #106134 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
Running 'The Whole Picture', MP345 Sig will not clear for 0K03 to drop on top of 3H05, had to talk him past. Regards, Phil. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 22:01 #106135 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
TRS received for 0M13 in Pfm.10. Route set towards the Engine Sdg, loco doesn't move down towards MP376 Sig for that signal to clear. I check F2 and 0M13 shows 'Held by conditions'. Regards, Phil. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 22:52 #106138 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
Phil-jmw in post 106134 said:Running 'The Whole Picture', MP345 Sig will not clear for 0K03 to drop on top of 3H05, had to talk him past.Solution. Restarted sim and ran 0K03 via the Engine Sdg, MP1155 GPL clears into Pfm.10. Regards, Phil. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 23:27 #106142 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
Phil-jmw in post 106135 said:TRS received for 0M13 in Pfm.10. Route set towards the Engine Sdg, loco doesn't move down towards MP376 Sig for that signal to clear. I check F2 and 0M13 shows 'Held by conditions'.Set the route from 376 towards the (white) shunt arrow at 374; don't set towards 374 itself. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 25/02/2018 at 00:49 #106145 | |
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Table 52
37 posts |
I've played "the whole picture" through to noon so far. Off-peak, it's a surprisingly manageable timetable. But, during the peak, it's an absolute nightmare, even on half speed! Really enjoyable to play, thanks for putting it together. It's interesting to see how much more utilised Victoria and Oxford Road stations are in this TT compared to the present day. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 27/02/2018 at 00:10 #106218 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
5O66 occupies all of Pfm.9, requiring 0O66 to be talked onto the ECS. As there have been no other comments regarding this I'm wondering if I've missed something which should be obvious. Apart from the issues I've raised here (which seem to be mainly of my own making) this is a fab TT, but very challenging in the morning peak (where I'm up to so far with the whole picture TT). I may have to go to half speed to unravel it a bit until round 0900. Regards, Phil. Last edited: 27/02/2018 at 00:13 by Phil-jmw Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 27/02/2018 at 19:33 #106233 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
6J75 0912 Appley Bridge - Dean Lane wrongly routed along the Up Bplton instead of Brindle Heath Loop did not stop and query the route, kept going towards Salford Crescent. One thing I've noticed with sometimes two or more trains in the sim at the same time with the same reporting number, is that very often when you click on a reporting number you get the train details of a different train (2H86 is a frequent offender), requiring a look into the F2 window to look at the correct train), which takes up valuable time when having to make quick regulating decisions and looking up platformings and next workings. Last edited: 27/02/2018 at 19:47 by Phil-jmw Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 00:13 #106236 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
A new version of the sim was updated today. See if the problems arise again? Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 00:28 #106237 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Phil-jmw in post 106233 said:One thing I've noticed with sometimes two or more trains in the sim at the same time with the same reporting number, is that very often when you click on a reporting number you get the train details of a different train (2H86 is a frequent offender), requiring a look into the F2 window to look at the correct train), which takes up valuable time when having to make quick regulating decisions and looking up platformings and next workings.Known problem when two trains with the same reporting number but different UID are in sim at the same time. Hopefully a solution to the problem will arrive in due course. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 02:56 #106238 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Thanks for all the comments so far. As the timetable(s)' creator I'm pleased that they are of interest. Various of the issues raised are covered by the MPSCC manual (e.g. light engine moves into the engine siding) which I strongly encourage users to read if they haven't already done so. All the others I've seen mentioned so far are part of SimSig's design. For example duplicate headcodes. As I mention in the text with each timetable, using "sticky labels" is helpful. When testing (which I do solo) I found that particularly helpful for trains off the CLC Liverpool route. One item raised so far is the need to manually clear trains past the last signal(s) into Piccadilly if the panel thinks a platform is full (Lime Street control). Be aware that this can occur even for timetabled moves (e.g. 5O66 referenced in one post). There is, I'm afraid, no substitute for experience of the timetable.... If it's of interest, I am currently working on a 1991 simulation for Piccadilly. Release is probably 2-3 weeks out. That will have major changes from 1989 as the Windsor Link is fully operational. In terms of "solo games", are they of interest to people, or should a 1991 offering just be one "big picture"? Good luck with the simulations and please feel free to contact me via SimSig's messaging facility if you seem to have hit an insuperable problem. Please add a saved situation file - trying to resolve problems is virtually impossible without one! Last edited: 28/02/2018 at 02:57 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: simonroberts755, Phil-jmw |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 01/03/2018 at 00:26 #106256 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
whatlep in post 106238 said:Thanks for all the comments so far. As the timetable(s)' creator I'm pleased that they are of interest. Owning virtually every Simsig sim ever produced, I can say that Man Picc is the most daunting sim of them all for the single player (I've never been involved in multiplayer), and the only one I have ever had to slow down to half speed (just through the morning peak, not made it to evening peak yet). That said, I do thoroughly enjoy this sim, even more so with this 1989 TT and all its light loco shunt moves that make this TT (and all the other heritage TT's) much more enjoyable than running 'straight up and down', so to speak. I personally am all for a 'big picture' 1991 TT, regardless of how busy it is, because just running with a part-picture TT would make me feel there was something missing. Thanks again for this excellent 1989 TT and I look forward to a 1991 TT. Regards, Phil Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 11/03/2018 at 18:33 #106658 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Phil-jmw in post 106256 said:Your wish is my demand. Manchester Piccadilly 1991 is now available! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Phil-jmw, bossman |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 08/10/2020 at 11:13 #132973 | |
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lionel87
39 posts |
I'm currently playing this (albeit the updated timetable 24/09/20) on non-ARS mode and I'm having some problems with some light engines failing to come off Longsight Depot (MP44). Can anyone advise me why this may be happening please? Is there a way of forcing them to enter the simulation? Thanks in advance. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 10/10/2020 at 09:04 #133004 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
lionel87 in post 132973 said:I'm currently playing this (albeit the updated timetable 24/09/20) on non-ARS mode and I'm having some problems with some light engines failing to come off Longsight Depot (MP44). Can anyone advise me why this may be happening please?Can you provide a saved file showing the problem please? I can't reproduce the fault. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 13/10/2020 at 16:36 #133082 | |
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lionel87
39 posts |
Here is the saved file. Whether it will help or not I'm not sure. Thanks for responding though. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 13/10/2020 at 17:01 by lionel87 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 16/10/2020 at 01:57 #133132 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
lionel87 in post 133082 said:Here is the saved file.You're welcome. First detected issue is that the file reports you are using Loader v5.3, but Loader 5.7 is required for the updated version of Piccadilly you are trying to use. Second is that using your saved file, I was immediately asked by Longisght to allow 0A13 to enter at MP44 and it did so as soon as I responded to the phone call and authorised entry. So, I still can't emulate your issue. See attached file for status with 0A13 leaving Longisght MPD (with 0G12 about to ring up again asking to enter). The only suggestion I can make is that you update your SimSig Loader file. Good luck! Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lionel87 |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 16/01/2022 at 10:01 #143577 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
First of all may I say how much I enjoy your suite of timetables for the Manchester sims. Whilst playing the MP 1989 TT (full picture v3.1) I've got two 5J06 in the sim at 21:50. Both are class 128 DPU. One enters from Longsight Hyde Rd Sdgs MP77 at 21:28 then reverses at Ordsall Lane MP542 for Manchester Victoria whilst the other enters from Ordsall Lane Dn Sdgs at 21:49 also for Manchester Victoria. Just wondering if this is correct. Afraid I can't recall the day of the week. Apologies if I've already raised same question as a result of a previous run through. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 31/01/2022 at 23:18 #144953 | |
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Kage
65 posts 
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Quick question, I've got 4M57 wanting to go to Trafford Park Sidings, and I'm unsure exactly where that is referring to, I'm guessing its either Trafford Park Estate or MIFT Depot, but setting a route to either of these causes ARS to complain about being routed off planned path. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 04/02/2022 at 15:19 #144992 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Javelin395 in post 143577 said:First of all may I say how much I enjoy your suite of timetables for the Manchester sims.Oh dear! My error: I seem to have left the second 5J06 in from an earlier version of the Piccadilly simulation in which reversal at MP542 wasn't coded, so two separate trains were required. If you are happy to edit the timetable, simply delete the version of 5J06 that enters from Ordsall Lane. I'll add the amendment to my list of "get round to it items". Thank you for the heads-up. EDIT - new version 3.2 now available for download, correcting the duplicate 5J06 problem. Last edited: 04/02/2022 at 19:57 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 04/02/2022 at 15:31 #144993 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Kage in post 144953 said:Quick question, I've got 4M57 wanting to go to Trafford Park Sidings, and I'm unsure exactly where that is referring to,Thanks for the question. ARS does not work for this simulation due to its complexity and must be turned off (see first line of general tab in timetable instructions)! Re the more general Trafford Park question, you will need to have phoned up Traffoprd Park Departure (confusingly the sidings' name) to get a slot for the arrival. When OKed, the white acceptance indication will illuminate and you'll be able to route the train. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 12/02/2022 at 08:08 #145145 | |
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swiftaw
271 posts |
I seem to be having an issue with 6P82, which comes from Wigan, then reverses over the Westhaughton crossover to get the down siding. The issue is it stops so that the rear of the train doesn't clear the crossover, so you can't switch the ground frame.
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| Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 12/02/2022 at 10:56 #145154 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
whatlep in post 144993 said:Kage in post 144953 said:That's interesting to note !! I'd been similarly confused by the location names but not got around to asking the question. Instead, I've been sending them into Trafford Park Estate (as that seemed the sensible place - at least to me) and the driver has merrily accepted the route.Quick question, I've got 4M57 wanting to go to Trafford Park Sidings, and I'm unsure exactly where that is referring to,Thanks for the question. Would it be worth adding a comment to this effect in the set of comprehensive notes that already accompany this excellent timetable ? Log in to reply |