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| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 13/07/2018 at 09:28 #110219 | |
ajax103
1108 posts |
With certain sims for example Swindid and Oxford you have the luxury of accepting or denying early trains entering your area ie you would get told by the neighbouring signal box of a approaching train which might enter your area early and if you would accept it running early or if you wanted them to hold it to time. Now as the coding has been set up for this, is it not possible for the reverse to happen and have you make the phone call to the neighbouring box to ask if they would accept a early running train or if they would prefer you held it to time? You could have it as Peterborough does with the option or example that you either call Nene CS and get penalty points for not asking permission to send them trains or turn the option off and send trains to them without calling. I think it would make it interesting and more challenging, the coding already exists one way so is it possible to code it the other way? Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 13/07/2018 at 12:37 #110225 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi, Don't necessarily disagree with the above - but in my view it must be an option. This "must keep trains to WTT time" is a relatively recent thing and only started when Performance Regimes were implemented. In the recent past trains ran early - sometimes very early and there was none of the "lets ask to next box if they will accept it" stuff. The policy then being if the train was ready and there was a path to the next refuge point it went. All boxes did it. For instance in era when I worked there, the Derby signaller would regulate northbound trains believing that the Down Derby Goods at Clay Cross were clear. It would have been up to the Trent PSB signaller to advise when it wasn't clear. A similar arrangement existed towards Tamworth. In other words it was a "by exception" arrangement. I would be unhappy if a change was implemented that penalised the user for running trains early without permission from the next box and it would make many historical timetables that much less realistic. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 13/07/2018 at 12:45 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 13/07/2018 at 12:58 #110226 | |
HST125Scorton
1159 posts 
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While it seems a good idea and yes an idea to bring into the sims, I think its best to leave alone?. Some older era timetables won't feel realistic etc. In modern times most PSBs/IECCs have CCF (To over look Neighboring Boxes, and there own??)and TRUST which auto updates trains locations and timings if/not early. Of course different in manual boxes where there manual inputted into TRUST or completely missed out. We have a train up here regular is 6K27 1443 Carlisle N.Y. to Crewe Basford Hall S.S.M. ran by DRS for Network Rail, most of the time the train 50+ Early leaving Carlisle and only placed into loops to allow expresses to pass before allowing back out to continue. Record for this train was 206 Early arrival at Crewe Basford Hall as it had a near non stop run all the way. But I have noticed they have a run on early freights and then regulation kicks in another time where its held practically to time. Only last week 6K27 left Preston 115 Early but Warrington was advised and Warrington kept hold of it at Golbourne Jn till time before continuing on. Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 14/07/2018 at 18:05 #110242 | |
kbarber
1719 posts |
Early 1980s anything coming out of Willesden would go when ready, if the regulator in the PSB reckoned he could make a path for it. Jim Peplar was probably the hottest for that - if a Freightliner was ready to go int he middle of the evening peak, Jim would have the FLT turn it out, then he'd have it held on the goods at Wembley until a Northants or Rugby semi-fast had gone by, then turn it out. The following stopper (Harrow, Bushey, Watford & stations) would probably get hit a couple of minutes before Harrow as the 'liner got into its stride, but after that would have greens all the way as the 'liner ran away from him. Of course the stopper would terminate at Bletchley (later Milton Keynes) as the following semi caught him up, but as the Northants loop was 75mph in those days the 'liner would still be able to pace him and get in clear in the middle road at Rugby. Drivers liked it - if they got relief at Rugby, they had an extended PNB and might still get away early for their second half - nothing like a finishing turn to have a driver run well. Control liked it - sooner the train got to destination, the sooner the loco would be released (that was the period they were so short of power that they got a couple of cl83s out of retirement, limited to 40mph, to handle ecs between Willesden and Euston). And the signalmen and regulators quite liked using their skill & judgement to thread the freights through the middle of a busy passenger service, as they always used to do in the old days. That was the move Jim Peplar was making in October 1984 when a down stopper overran signals at Wembley and collided with the freightliner http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Wembley1984.pdf although in that case the 'liner was a late runner. Last edited: 14/07/2018 at 18:24 by kbarber Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 15/07/2018 at 17:47 #110256 | |
Giantray
335 posts |
What would be nice is a feature that allows the Signaler to call a train via SPT for several reason. e.g. to give authority to move rather than wait for the driver to call; to replace a signal for a train that you have pulled off in error for, or even forgot to put the signal back when the train first reported it wasn't going to move, etc
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 15/07/2018 at 18:31 #110260 | |
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JamesN
1586 posts |
Giantray in post 110256 said:What would be nice is a feature that allows the Signaler to call a train via SPT for several reason. e.g. to give authority to move rather than wait for the driver to call; to replace a signal for a train that you have pulled off in error for, or even forgot to put the signal back when the train first reported it wasn't going to move, etcAgree it would be nice - but I suspect the caveat would be all those are only a very modern capability with the advent of widespread in-cab radio that wouldn’t have been available in even relatively recent times. Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 16/07/2018 at 01:03 #110264 | |
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Phil-jmw
674 posts |
Many 60's/70's SPT systems didn't have a ringback facility (Derby PSB's definitely didn't), and even if they did a driver sitting in his cab would probably not hear an SPT ringing anyway.
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| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 16/07/2018 at 09:13 #110267 | |
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Giantray
335 posts |
JamesN in post 110260 said:It is not that modern. Having worked in a 1974 MPSB, we had the facility on most signals to use the SPT to contact the driver. We even had Section K signals, whereby we would block an adjacent line then to get a Driver to answer a signal phone, ring the phone which would show a light on the signal concerned. Maybe Southern drivers we more proactive than elsewhere and could hear the phone as they used to pull up tight to signals. Nowadays SPTs are being removed from other than at stations and critical locations and sole reliance is placed on the GSM-R radio system. Simsig mimics several eras, so maybe SPTs, Cab Secure Radio (CSR) and GSM-R need to be a feature in Simsig. They were/are certainly a big part in a Signallers/Signalmen's daily job. Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |
| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 16/07/2018 at 09:28 #110268 | |
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kbarber
1719 posts |
There were no ringback facilities to SPTs in the 1960s/70s installations on the Eastern Region. I thinkt he same technology had been used on the NE and LM Regions (hence Euston sim would have no ringbacks). I may be wrong, but I don't think West Hampstead had ringback to SPTs, and of course CSR was only provided for the DOO worked suburban services.
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| Telephone calls to external signal boxes regarding early running trains 17/07/2018 at 03:46 #110280 | |
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Giantray
335 posts |
kbarber in post 110268 said:There were no ringback facilities to SPTs in the 1960s/70s installations on the Eastern Region. I thinkt he same technology had been used on the NE and LM Regions (hence Euston sim would have no ringbacks). I may be wrong, but I don't think West Hampstead had ringback to SPTs, and of course CSR was only provided for the DOO worked suburban services. London Bridge ASC only had CSR initially on Panels 1, 2, 3, 8 & 9 solely for the Thameslink services. It wasn't until later on in the 1990s that the rest of the ASC was fitted. Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |