Carlisle Issues

So I'm having an issue using the 79-80 TT where several trains departing Carlisle in either direction are losing their headcodes on the way out. I can't pin down any pattern. I thought it might only be seeded headcodes but I just had the 1M10 on the Wednesday schedule go blank as it departed P3 and I'd manually reinputed that one after the loco swap.

This is my first run on both the loader Carlisle and the new version of the 79-80TT.

So I'm having an issue using the 79-80 TT where several trains departing Carlisle in either direction are losing their headcodes on the way out. I can't pin down any pattern. I thought it might only be seeded headcodes but I just had the 1M10 on the Wednesday schedule go blank as it departed P3 and I'd manually reinputed that one after the loco swap.

This is my first run on both the loader Carlisle and the new version of the 79-80TT.

With CLST and KDST shunters going into the Upperby run round and the Kingmoor shunt neck I'm finding they aren't resetting the signals after they pass and that I have to manually cancel the routing and incur an approach locking penalty.

I also noticed that at ~2:50 on the wed schedule with the move to have 0T03 (CSTP3D) shunt forward and then reverse into the SA siding from signal CE294 that the points being set with the white triangle rather than the signal for the move out of P1 I believe caused the train to state it was stuck at red, yet canceling this route to reset it so I could try via the signal and not the white triangle caused an adverse change of aspect. The new route permitted the train to move though.

Is there a comprehensive explanation somewhere of how and when and when not you should be using those white triangles?

This may well be a feature of the real box. As long as you don't cause an adverse change of aspect, triggering the approach locking does not penalise you score-wise.

I'm not sure how you go in the scenario you describe- a train will recognise a shunt aspect as a clear signal. Perhaps it was only just ready to depart? Or you checked F2 immediately after clearing the signal, and the driver hadn't noticed yet (trains won't move off instantly)?

I also notice that there's nothing stopping my from setting a shunt signal back into the yard with the route set in the opposite direction. Its like the signal goes to red but the interlocking hasn't released. I effectively can have the route locked to both directions at once.

Quote:

I'm not sure how you go in the scenario you describe- a train will recognise a shunt aspect as a clear signal. Perhaps it was only just ready to depart? Or you checked F2 immediately after clearing the signal, and the driver hadn't noticed yet (trains won't move off instantly)?

This is the message I received to tell me that there was a problem with the route I'd set, because from CE301 to CE365 I'd set the route for the shunt but via the white arrow. The rout was white, the interlocking set properly.

02:49:59 0T03 waiting at red signal CE301 (Carlisle area)

I cancelled the route to reset it via the main signal and not the arrow at CE365 and got this message.

02:50:26 0T03 received an adverse change of aspect at signal CE301

After the usual song and dance of waiting to resolve that the shunt finally went through successfully on the new route using the signal and not the arrow.

The shunts at upperby and kingmoor prototypically don't return to danger and yoh can set both conflicting routes at the same time. This is to reduce signalman workload where shunting would be frequent.

Personally I set both upperby and kingmoor shunts up at the start and leave them all off normally, only returning them to danger when a train rings to depart or a train is approaching requiring entry.

When one the KDSL or UDSL shunts takes place I don't need to get involved at all beyond authorising it via phone call.

The shunt signal only clears after the train has come to a stand at the signal, hence the waiting at red signal message. The train will remain stopped for a few moments while the driver reacts to the change and releases the brakes.

So I'm having an issue using the 79-80 TT where several trains departing Carlisle in either direction are losing their headcodes on the way out. I can't pin down any pattern.

When routing trains through P1 in the up direction routing CE335/336 to CE314 (P1 Mid Signal) to CE301 (P1 Starter Sig) to CE365 or CE278, CE314 despite not appearing to have any restrictions on it (not labelled in sim or in the manual) does not clear from a danger aspect until T443 is occupied causing any trains to slow to 15 mph from the track speed of 20mph (taken from the current Sectional Appendix so could be incorrect) before a proceed aspect is displayed.
Just wanted to check if this was correct operation of CE314?

y10g9 in post 117583 said:

When routing trains through P1 in the up direction routing CE335/336 to CE314 (P1 Mid Signal) to CE301 (P1 Starter Sig) to CE365 or CE278, CE314 despite not appearing to have any restrictions on it (not labelled in sim or in the manual) does not clear from a danger aspect until T443 is occupied causing any trains to slow to 15 mph from the track speed of 20mph (taken from the current Sectional Appendix so could be incorrect) before a proceed aspect is displayed.
Just wanted to check if this was correct operation of CE314?

My guess is CE314 works in that way due to its proximity to CE301 Sig. You refer to CE314 as being mid-platform, when in reality it is very close to the south end of Pfm 1, and protects the connection from the station carriage sidings. Just going from memory the distance between CE314 and CE301 is probably around one or two engine lengths, so you would not want CE314 to display a yellow with an approaching train still a good distance from it with CE301 displaying red as there would be insufficient service braking distance.

y10g9 in post 117583 said:

When routing trains through P1 in the up direction routing CE335/336 to CE314 (P1 Mid Signal) to CE301 (P1 Starter Sig) to CE365 or CE278, CE314 despite not appearing to have any restrictions on it (not labelled in sim or in the manual) does not clear from a danger aspect until T443 is occupied causing any trains to slow to 15 mph from the track speed of 20mph (taken from the current Sectional Appendix so could be incorrect) before a proceed aspect is displayed.
Just wanted to check if this was correct operation of CE314?

My guess is CE314 works in that way due to its proximity to CE301 Sig. You refer to CE314 as being mid-platform, when in reality it is very close to the south end of Pfm 1, and protects the connection from the station carriage sidings. Just going from memory the distance between CE314 and CE301 is probably around one or two engine lengths, so you would not want CE314 to display a yellow with an approaching train still a good distance from it with CE301 displaying red as there would be insufficient service braking distance.

Phil-jmw in post 117598 said:

y10g9 in post 117583 said:

When routing trains through P1 in the up direction routing CE335/336 to CE314 (P1 Mid Signal) to CE301 (P1 Starter Sig) to CE365 or CE278, CE314 despite not appearing to have any restrictions on it (not labelled in sim or in the manual) does not clear from a danger aspect until T443 is occupied causing any trains to slow to 15 mph from the track speed of 20mph (taken from the current Sectional Appendix so could be incorrect) before a proceed aspect is displayed.
Just wanted to check if this was correct operation of CE314?

My guess is CE314 works in that way due to its proximity to CE301 Sig. You refer to CE314 as being mid-platform, when in reality it is very close to the south end of Pfm 1, and protects the connection from the station carriage sidings. Just going from memory the distance between CE314 and CE301 is probably around one or two engine lengths, so you would not want CE314 to display a yellow with an approaching train still a good distance from it with CE301 displaying red as there would be insufficient service braking distance.

I believe this is the case, it protects the junction from the Sidings opp Platform 1 according to the information I have to hand. It will fit around 1 1/2 locos in between the said signals.

I raise the question are EPS speeds working in the 2000s & 2016 era and can it be verifed?.

HST125Scorton in post 118528 said:

I raise the question are EPS speeds working in the 2000s & 2016 era and can it be verifed?.

Open a sectional appendix on one part of the screen and watch the train and look at its speed via F2 in the other part.

HST125Scorton in post 118528 said:

I raise the question are EPS speeds working in the 2000s & 2016 era and can it be verifed?.

Open a sectional appendix on one part of the screen and watch the train and look at its speed via F2 in the other part.

I raise the question are EPS speeds working in the 2000s & 2016 era and can it be verifed?.