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| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 08/01/2020 at 16:27 #122799 | |
whatlep
377 posts |
Another timetable for the early days of Piccadilly, with even more trains and light engine movements than 1971. Released to mark 50 years since the closure of the Hayfield, Macclesfield (via Rose Hill) and Woodhead routes to passenger traffic on Jan 5th 1970, the timetable features all those services. It is based on the May-June 1969 weekday timetable and is a vivid remeinder of the steam-age operations still very much in evidence in the period. All main-line services are loco-hauled, platforms can be blocked by stock for hours at a time and shunting movements can jam the layout at rush-hours. Marvel too at Oxford Road, a very quiet place outside the morning and evening peaks, despite additional services transferred from Manchester Central. The timetable can be handled by one person, with comfort outside peak hours, but in the peaks you are strongly recommended to reduce speed to no more than 1.5 times real time. PLEASE - read the guidance in the General tab of the timetable before operating the simulation. You are likely to enter a world of pain if you don't! To help with understanding of the 1969 layout a couple of signalling plans are attached. Note the absence of the direct route from Longsight to the Eastern Lines and that the only place to route trains to/from platforms 6-12 and the Ashburys route is at Ardwick. Whether you keep to reality or "cheat" is up to your conscience! I hope users enjoy the timetable. It's possible that a "summer Saturdays" version will emerge in due course.   Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Phil-jmw, BarryM, ajax103, vloris, broodje, DonRiver |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 22/01/2020 at 00:19 #122980 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
As suggested in my original post, a new, very different version for "Summer Saturdays" of July 1969 has been created and is now available for downloading. It's very different to the weekday 1969 timetable. Fewer trains overall, but more throughout the day on the Liverpool and Chester routes, many more loco-hauled services in place of rush-hour locals and some truly difficult periods when Piccadilly is full to bursting. I hope users will enjoy it! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: BarryM, Phil-jmw, phil1044 |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 22/01/2020 at 00:38 #122982 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
whatlep in post 122980 said:As suggested in my original post, a new, very different version for "Summer Saturdays" of July 1969 has been created and is now available for downloading.All of your heritage Manchester TT's have been excellent to run Peter, so I'll look forward to this one too. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 23/01/2020 at 12:57 #122992 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
For users' information, V1.1 of the original weekday 1969 simulation is now available to download. Five new trains added: mostly for parcels services late in the evening that had somehow escaped my notice previously. Better still, they add a couple of shunting requirements and loco moves! Other lesser changes concern minor schedule corrections for several EMU workings, though I doubt users will notice any difference, plus a correction to the last Hadfield working to ensure it runs rather than sitting for ever at Piccadilly. All changes documented in the attached log file. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 23/01/2020 at 12:58 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 31/12/2022 at 21:11 #149847 | |
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Javelin395
274 posts |
Hi Whatlep I've spent the festive period either out running in the Peak District or playing your 1969 Piccadilly TT v2.2. With all the terminating trains at Oxford Rd it's very different to what I'm used to (and fiendishly difficult when there are multiple trains with the same headcode in the sim at the same time) !! Anyways, I've encountered a problem with 5H36 (the 17:48 shunt from P8 to P5 via the Eng Sdg). Basically it's too long for the Eng Sdg and fouls Piccadilly throat preventing points being called for a route into P5. Save attached so you can take a look at what I mean. Should I be reversing this train on the FAST lines behind MP345 or MP343 instead ? Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 31/12/2022 at 21:12 by Javelin395 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 31/12/2022 at 21:21 #149849 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
It's too big for the engine siding, I don't know if the length of it has ever changed, but it will only just fit a 5 car 221 these days. Possibly playing around with a far end + suitable distance stopping point and giving it MP1138 might get it behind MP1155 okay. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 02/01/2023 at 21:59 #149928 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Javelin395 in post 149847 said:Hi WhatlepThanks for your email and for using the 1969 simulation. The situation with 5H36 is complicated! In the real world, Piccadilly in 1969 had a rather more complex and flexible layout than today. The attached file shows you the throat area which was unchanged between 1960 and late 1988. In reality, 5H36 would have reversed either at LR147 or at shunt signal LR149, immediately on the Longsight side of the scissors crossover. Today's MP347 and MP343 are roughly equivalent. When the Piccadilly sim was first introduced, the up and down slow lines could be used as equivalents to the Mayfield Goods Loop and 5H36 was timetabled to make use of that facility (i.e. on the Up Slow at LR147, today's MP347 signal). That facility was removed in a simulation update and I should have replaced the location with Ardwick Jn - the next best (or least worst) option, but I clearly erred and used the Engine Siding. My apologies. I will update both timetable and the accompanying notes in the General tab and submit them for the Moderators' approval. In the meantime, if you change 5H36's timetabled entry for Engine Siding to Ardwick Jn, all should be OK. The train should move off and come to a stand at MP302, then want to reverse back into the station. You will have to give the driver authority to proceed for the move pack into platform 5, but the simulation's comms will prompt you to do that. Hope that helps and Happy New Year!  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 03/01/2023 at 21:02 #149948 | |
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Javelin395
274 posts |
A happy New Year to you too Whatlep !! Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. Nothing to apologize for though - I've had endless hours of 'fun' playing your suite of Piccadilly TT's so thank you for your efforts. Hope you didn't feel I was being unduly critical... your TT's generally work very well, especially given the limitations of the 1990 vs 1960s layout. I just wasn't sure whether the issue I'd raised was an error on your part or something you'd left in from the real data for us to cope with. I've now completed my run through to the end of this TT and I've encountered a couple of other oddities towards the end: 5H84-2350 platform shunt via Mayfield Gds Loop has "Piccadilly P13-P10 EEMU shunt" in its description but shows P7 as its intended platform in the TT. Mayfield Gds Loop --> P7 isn't possible (at least in Simsig layout) and P10 is occupied until 00:04 by an outbound service when 5H84 is scheduled from the Gds Loop back into Piccadilly. 0V63-2404 and 5E66-2322 clash in Eng Sdg as 0V63 is timed Eng Sdg arr 00:07 and dep 00:10 whilst 5E66 is timed Eng Sdg arr 24:09 and dep 24:12. Neither of the above are show stoppers... as they are towards the end of the TT I simply held them until there was a clear path and shoved them wherever I had capacity. Just thought you might want to be made aware seeing as you mentioned releasing a revision to solve the issue with 5H84. Log in to reply |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 04/01/2023 at 16:46 #149970 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
Javelin395 in post 149948 said:A happy New Year to you too Whatlep !!Well done for spotting these and thank you for taking the trouble to report them. I appreciate it. Checking my records, there are logical reasons for each item. The last two moves are easy: their movement times are what the working timetable shows, but with the nuance that in SimSig, there is no provision for shunting on the main lines simply. That's the same issue that occurred with the 5H36 move and word have occurred for 5E66 too. I left the times in "as is" and left users to work it all out. Sorry! The move with 5H34-2350 should be to p10 (hence the description left in). Two parcels train(s) that I have timetabled to use p10 around then in reality would have used p12. That platform existed until 1988, was stripped of track for some years and then resurrected. So in the simulation I cheated and used p7. That worked while the location "Mayfield Goods Loop" applied to the slow lines as well as the loop itself, but in one revision of the sim code, the slow lines had the location removed. Having now created a monster, I've been caught out by it. What I'll do is have that move berth in Mayfield Goods Loop in a future revision. I recommend you do likewise! Having looked at the simulation locations again as a result of your excellent queries, I have discovered that use of the holding siding alongside platform 1 is now possible as signal MP1151 can now be used as a reversal point. That makes routing light engines off the DC Woodhead services to stable there possible and would reduce conflicts on the access to/from Ardwick Carriage Sidings (Ashburys arr/ dep in SimSig). Hope that all makes sense. It would be wonderful if a true pre-1988 layout for the simulation could be made available, with the correct slow line access into platforms 10-12 (and 12 resurrected) and the much more flexible layout for platforms 1-4, including the Eastern engine siding, but I suspect that's extremely unlikely. All the best Peter Whatley Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| Manchester Piccadilly 1969 timetable released 05/01/2023 at 13:57 #150005 | |
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Javelin395
274 posts |
Thank you for another very comprehensive reply. I wish more people could be like you !! For context, after 50+ years I was recently diagnosed as autistic. Some of my (many) oddities are that I seem to be unusually good at spotting inconsistencies and constantly strive for perfection in anything that I do. These traits often result in stress both for myself and those around me so I'm glad you haven't taken offence by my queries. For the above reason I invariably play Simsig with zero failures and therefore expect a TT to work flawlessly unless the author has specifically noted they have purposefully left real-life clashes in for us to contend with. I agree a heritage Manchester Piccadilly would be interesting but I guess as time marches on it must become increasingly difficult to obtain the level of detail needed to produce the high quality sims that Geoff prides himself on. Thanks once again for your efforts and the endless hours of fun I've had as a result. Last edited: 05/01/2023 at 13:59 by Javelin395 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |