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| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 18:16 #128430 | |
whatlep
377 posts |
Since we know the Mid Cheshire Line is coming fairly soon, would the developers be prepared to answer a few questions, arising from the screenshots of the pre-1991 version already trailed? If the various items noted are missing, is there a chance of getting them added please? 1) Is there any emulation of the Mouldsworth-Helsby (West Cheshire Jn) route? That was still around until West Cheshire Jn suffered a fire in 1991, though I think the line was last used for freights to/from the Stanlow area in 1990. 2) Does Mouldsworth SB feature as a block post? The scans suggest an interface direct to Mickle Trafford which didn't occur until Mouldsworth was closed in (IIRC) 2006. 3) Is Knutsford SB included? From 1980-1991, the block posts were Hale; Mobberley; Knutsford; Plumley West (all AB), then Greenbank (TCB), Mouldsworth & Mickle Trafford. Tokenless block between the latter two. All the intermediate boxes had crossovers and at various times those at Knutsford and Plumley West were used to enable short DMU workings to/from Manchester. 4) Is provision for reversing trains from the Chester direction in place at Altrincham? This was a feature of operation for a number of years for the first couple of departures from Chester. 5) Is provision made for reversing DMUs at Greenbank using both the main line and curve to Oakleigh Sgds? As per (2), the latter was used for some years, to keep DMUs off the main line. Thanks in advance for any and all information you're able to share. Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 18:34 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 18:26 #128431 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I can only answer 1) as that would be on the Chester sim, rather than the Cheshire Lines sim. It's not simulated, and I have no plans to do a further era on Chester as the information required to do such an era isn't available.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 18:38 #128433 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
headshot119 in post 128431 said:I can only answer 1) as that would be on the Chester sim, rather than the Cheshire Lines sim. It's not simulated, and I have no plans to do a further era on Chester as the information required to do such an era isn't available.Thank you for the swift response. It prompts an obvious supplementary question. May I ask if the entrance point for the Mid Cheshire route at the Chester end is Mickle Trafford or Mouldsworth (or possibly a default to Chester)? Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 18:50 #128435 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
The entry point on the Cheshire Lines sim is Mickle Trafford.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 18:56 #128437 | |
Steamer
3985 posts 
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whatlep in post 128433 said:headshot119 in post 128431 said:Entry point is Mickle Trafford Jn.I can only answer 1) as that would be on the Chester sim, rather than the Cheshire Lines sim. It's not simulated, and I have no plans to do a further era on Chester as the information required to do such an era isn't available.Thank you for the swift response. It prompts an obvious supplementary question. May I ask if the entrance point for the Mid Cheshire route at the Chester end is Mickle Trafford or Mouldsworth (or possibly a default to Chester)? 3) No 4) No 5) Reversing at Greenbank is possible, but not the Oakleigh curve. I can raise a ticket to add 4 and 5, I think it's best for the developer to answer item 3. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 19:22 #128440 | |
jc92
3689 posts |
I've already written a 1991 timetable for Cheshire lines which I'm just finalising and it should be out within a fortnight (allowing for the sim to be released of course!) Trains for Helsby have been timetabled to Mickle Trafford as west Cheshire junction isn't availble but it doesn't reduce use experience as Mouldsworth is off sim anyway. Mouldsworth isn't a block post in the sense it has a box, but it does have equivelant replacement signalling. Knutsford isn't included. The morning ECS to Knutsford has to run further south to reverse back instead. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 19:24 by jc92 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 19:34 #128442 | |
pedroathome
916 posts
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I hope the following sums up both what has been put above, or clarifies anything else. 1 - Karl has answerd above 2 - If I've understood your question correctly, Timing points are Mickle Trafford, Mouldsworth, Delamere, Cuddington. 3 - Knutsford signal box is not included. All of the era differences take place directly in the Altrincham - Deansgate Junction area. 4 - I have no evidence to suggest that this was possible without shunting towards Manchester and reversing. I've attached two links below which may shed some light on my assumptions. 5 - Stand by on this. This may not be in the initial release, but will be looked at after. In relation to 4 above: Altrincham signal box diagram, 1991 - https://tinyurl.com/AltrinchamSBD Hale Signal Box - https://tinyurl.com/HaleSBD James Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 20:34 #128454 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
pedroathome in post 128442 said:I hope the following sums up both what has been put above, or clarifies anything else.James et al Many thanks for your responses which are much appreciated. JC92, could I ask if your 1991 timetable is before or after the July changes at Deansgate Jn? I think all of my questions have been answered, but I'll expand on a couple purely as an FYI. At Greenbank, ECS movements sometimes had excessive time to await their next working, so were moved onto the Oakleigh curve. I am going back some years now to a period when ECS workings arrived from both Chester and Manchester. At Altrincham, the supposition is entirely correct. ECS DMUs worked forwards from platform 3 the short distance to the trailing crossover outside the station, then reversed over it into platform 4. Thus in an ideal world the up shunt signal protecting the main line crossover at Altrincham would be a legitimate timetable reversing point. Again, thanks to all for your assistance. Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 20:44 #128456 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts
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Mantis Mantis 30915 updated to reflect request for reverse point behind AM59- apologies, I thought you meant a reversal in P3 initially.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 21:01 #128459 | |
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jc92
3689 posts |
In answer to your question, both! It will initially cover the pre tramlink layout at the start of the timetable period however I intend to modify it and release an alternative/additional version where the electric workings also work the transition period using the new layout until circa December 1991. the WTT is identical the only changes are entry/exit points which is Cornbrook in the early era and Timperley in the later era, hence why one WTT file can't cover both. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 21:58 #128468 | |
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jc92
3689 posts |
whatlep in post 128454 said:Correction - I had the date of conversion/amendment as slightly later. I've checked your July date and 7th July is the date the layout amendments were made. I'll amend my timetable to purely use the later era, although still of course with 304's instead of trams. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 22:00 #128469 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
jc92 in post 128459 said:In answer to your question, both!Great minds clearly think alike! I shall park my devious plan to do exactly what you intend. I'm still minded to create timetables for 1985 and/or 1987 for at least the Mid Cheshire route and possibly Chester too. Will that conflict with anything you have in plan? As you'll almost certainly be aware, the whole route between Altrincham and Stockport/Stretford was closed for two weeks in July 1991 (7th-21st IIRC) while Deansgate Jn was remodelled. The AC units then, as you say, ran over the layout prepared for tram operation until around 9pm on December 24th, 1991 when the final service trains ran as 6-car sets. After that, we had the promised 6 week transition to Metrolink that turned into six months and then the disastrously unreliable early years of Metrolink. We bought a second car in 1993 as a direct result... Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 22:03 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 22:07 #128471 | |
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jc92
3689 posts |
No conflicts at all. this is the sole timetable I intend to do for it. an earlier timetable should certainly be interesting, especially if more trains make it towards Partington. Yes, my understanding is that, similar to the bury line conversion BR hid the quality of the Pway and track until the handover so a simple conversion turned into some serious remedial work that hadn't been planned for! "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Mid Cheshire Line simulation questions 28/06/2020 at 23:26 #128486 | |
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whatlep
377 posts |
jc92 in post 128471 said:No conflicts at all. this is the sole timetable I intend to do for it. an earlier timetable should certainly be interesting, especially if more trains make it towardsI'm afraid that was a line peddled by GMML to hide their own failings. Nothing was "hidden" by BR. GMML simply failed to do their job properly. As any Project Manager could have informed them, the first thing to do is "due diligence" and check the status of the assets you are intending to purchase/ use. GMML conspicuously failed to do so and their contractors' organisation and rates of progress were the stuff of legend at the time. Indeed, the first review of the completed system in March 1993's Modern Railways stated "One regrets having to say so, but the overall impression is that of amateurism". Strong stuff, but, from my viewpoint both as a user and a Project Manager, spot on! Log in to reply |