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| Is it forbidden ? 02/07/2020 at 19:56 #128822 | |
Simdmuk
155 posts |
The attached picture shows a train leaving Rothley station for Leicester North on the Great Central Railway. One person commented and regarded the signalling position as "forbidden" as the up outer home(behind the train) is ON,but the train is still traveling over trailing points. The commentator stated that this was forbidden as the signal should remain OFF until all wheels have passed the points (the starter is further along beyond two other sets of trailing points). I must admit I have not heard of this rule, and have seen many occasions (both mainline and preserved) where signals were replaced to danger before a train clears point work. Could someone confirm if this is correct? 
Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 02/07/2020 at 19:57 by Simdmuk Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Is it forbidden ? 02/07/2020 at 19:58 #128823 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Semaphore stop signals should be maintained off until the train has passed clear of any FACING points. There is no such rule for trailing points. I'd hasten to add, I despise people who analyse photos (Not you the original person) how do they know the train wasn't talked passed the signal at danger due to a fault etc? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, Simdmuk, BoxBoyKit |
| Is it forbidden ? 02/07/2020 at 20:07 #128824 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
That's probably going to depend which rulebook you're reading from (bearing in mind the GCR have their own standards which can vary from NR/RSSB's and still be considered safe). RSSB general signalling regulation 4.3 (the current NR standard) states that you must replace a stop signal to danger as soon as a train has passed it and where there are facing points, as soon as the last vehicle has cleared them. it makes no reference to trailing points There's no risk that I can see in this example anyway as the points are locked by the presence of the train on the relevant track circuit. headshot119 in post 128823 said: Much like the people who say a fireman is doing a bad job when the safety valves lift, or when some black smoke is made while the volatiles burn off. Edit: as a point of interest to the original topic, Darley Dale signalboxes crossing gates were locked by the protecting signals being in the off position, so there was a special instruction to keep the signal off until the train had passed the crossing fully, however we'd be expected to put back after this, but before the train had cleared the trailing loop points. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 02/07/2020 at 20:20 by jc92 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Simdmuk |
| Is it forbidden ? 02/07/2020 at 21:06 #128830 | |
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Simdmuk
155 posts |
headshot119 in post 128823 said:I quite agree ! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| Is it forbidden ? 02/07/2020 at 21:08 #128831 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
jc92 in post 128824 said:There's at least one box on NR that still has that requirement in the SBSIs, you must observe up trains having passed over the crossing complete with tail lamp before restoring the home signal to danger. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Is it forbidden ? 03/07/2020 at 09:54 #128853 | |
Late Turn
699 posts |
jc92 in post 128824 said:
In this case, and many others, the points themselves aren’t locked by the track circuit being occupied, only the FPL. I can’t remember whether the section signal off locks the points both ways, but that’d be an extra safeguard if so (links nicely to the Allerton question yesterday). Even if someone did put back and manage to put the points back normal under the train, it wouldn’t be especially dangerous although it wouldn’t do the equipment much good! Back to the OP though, and the general principle, I’d suggest looking at the layout at the south end of Loughborough and thinking how you could work that whilst declining to put signals back until each train’s clear of *all* pointwork in advance. There are some moves, e.g. platform 2 to Up Main, where you can set up and pull off for (what would’ve been) a conflicting move behind the train whilst it’s still traversing the rest of the pointwork in the layout. It’s a busy box during special events and you really can’t afford to be hanging about at one end of the frame waiting for the whole of one movement to clear the pointwork before coming up to the other end to start setting up for the next move, usually with at least another one or two moves going on elsewhere in the layout at the same time. Everything at the south end is locked by track circuit occupation anyway, so there’s really no risk in that case. On the other hand, in this specific case, my preference is to get the home signal (i.e. the signal in rear of the one featured) back to danger immediately behind the train, protecting it whilst it carries out station duties, then to leave the starter off until the train’s passed the section signal too (sending TOS in the meantime) to reduce the temptation to put the latter back in front of the train. Log in to reply |
| Is it forbidden ? 03/07/2020 at 12:14 #128869 | |
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jrr
95 posts |
On a heritage railway I signalled there would sometimes on a gala day be a loco that was dropped off the back of a departing train which had to follow it through the platform and then back onto a different line, or stand outside the box which was after the home starter. In those cases I always tried to put the starter back on as soon as the departing train had cleared it so the light loco had a clear stop instruction before commencing the next part of its movement. By the time that was done the trailing point (which could not lock in that direction) was usually well clear.
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