Will Bristol ever be released for the loader

I see that Bristol has been withdrawn due to its age. Will it ever be updated or is it lost for ever? Whilst it would be nice to have the 4 track filton layout as an option, just having the thing in the loader with the Avonmouth BHT bug fixed - which many years ago the developer did say he'd fixed but the update was never released, presumably because it might have broken chaining with Westbury etc.

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

mfloyd in post 134199 said:

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

From https://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

"For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works

70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies, or the work is made available to the public, by authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.

The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 extended the rules covering literary works to include computer programs."

If I read it correctly that means about 60 years yet before any re-working of the sim by a third party could be released unless the original author gives permission.

postal in post 134205 said:

mfloyd in post 134199 said:

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

From https://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

"For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works

70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies, or the work is made available to the public, by authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.

The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 extended the rules covering literary works to include computer programs."

If I read it correctly that means about 60 years yet before any re-working of the sim by a third party could be released unless the original author gives permission.

So...it'll be ready when its ready? :D

Interesting that the copyright is vested with the author of the sim rather than Simsig, is that still the case with later sims or was that an early anomaly before Cajon Rail was formed.

Hmm, not really. The sims are produced under the auspices of Simsig. But hey ho.

Hmm, not really. The sims are produced under the auspices of Simsig. But hey ho.

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

mfloyd in post 134199 said:

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

Nobody has stated copyright is a factor in upgrading Bristol sim or not.

To use another slightly dated analogy, who holds the copyright when a hard copy book is published? For example picking a random book of my bookshelf is says "This trade paperback published in 2005 by Orion" and then below that "Copyright © 2004 John Rebus Limited"

and then "The right of Ian Rankin to be identified as the author of this work has been asserted by him in accordance with the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988". Seems to indicate a clear demarcation between publisher and owner of the copyright.

jc92 in post 134214 said:

postal in post 134205 said:

mfloyd in post 134199 said:

Is there a time period when any copyright issues cease after development?

From https://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

"For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works

70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies, or the work is made available to the public, by authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.

The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 extended the rules covering literary works to include computer programs."

If I read it correctly that means about 60 years yet before any re-working of the sim by a third party could be released unless the original author gives permission.

So...it'll be ready when its ready? :D

I'll just schedule a post for January 1st 2081 to ask if it's ready yet? :P

So if you make Bristol from scatch or from ground up using data from Quail map books or whatever and umpteen visits to Bristol areas as to get the layout details and movements of freights and paxs, are you infringing the copyright even if the layouts is similar to one a!ready done on Simsig or as there in location in real life ??

axmh in post 134313 said:

So if you make Bristol from scatch or from ground up using data from Quail map books or whatever and umpteen visits to Bristol areas as to get the layout details and movements of freights and paxs, are you infringing the copyright even if the layouts is similar to one a!ready done on Simsig or as there in location in real life ??

Copyright violation requires copying. Facts can't be copyrighted, only how they are presented can be subject to copyright.

So if you build a Bristol sim from scratch then there would be no violation. But if you copy, for example, the exact layout of the sim in aspects (sorry) that aren't forced by the facts (e.g. exactly how long each platform is drawn) then that is a breach of copyright. The law requires a substantive component to be copied to be a violation, not the whole thing, and it doesn't have to be an exact copy to be a problem.

So if someone were to do this, it would be best if they didn't even look at the existing sim while doing so.

So if you make Bristol from scatch or from ground up using data from Quail map books or whatever and umpteen visits to Bristol areas as to get the layout details and movements of freights and paxs, are you infringing the copyright even if the layouts is similar to one a!ready done on Simsig or as there in location in real life ??

I do admire your summaries of this stuff Clive. My partner earned himself a very comfortable living teaching this stuff for many years, and it is complicated!! For anyone attempting a new build, the greater distance you can put between yourself and Kurt's version, the better.

I do admire your summaries of this stuff Clive. My partner earned himself a very comfortable living teaching this stuff for many years, and it is complicated!!

If you compare the Bristol sim to panel photos available on , there are a small number of things located on incorrect track circuits, missing tracks, or additional. I suspect a new sim would also be much more restrictive. There will also always be slight differences to how people interoperate the layout. (Edit) This should read that although the overall design would be the same, there can be slight differences in how this gets drawn. Some bits less stretched, some bits more, etc.

pedroathome in post 134319 said:

If you compare the Bristol sim to panel photos available on , there are a small number of things located on incorrect track circuits, missing tracks, or additional. I suspect a new sim would also be much more restrictive. There will also always be slight differences to how people interoperate the layout. (Edit) This should read that although the overall design would be the same, there can be slight differences in how this gets drawn. Some bits less stretched, some bits more, etc.

It's also worth pointing out that the SimSig core code has advanced massively since the last Bristol release. Ground Frames and Western-region style auto controls are two things off the top of my head that can be done now. I think I'm also right in saying that the level crossings and eras in Bristol were implemented as bespoke custom features, rather than being standard SimSig components. There'll doubtless be plenty of other features that can now be implemented, or implemented in a different way to the original simulation.

I recall it being mentioned in relation to another old sim that it would take as long to unpick and re-build the old one as to start again from scratch.