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| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 13:18 #145066 | |
lukebriner
56 posts |
I am moving forwards slowly! The loco-hauled book was really helpful to nail some of the random workings like the odd class 50. I am trying to resolve locos for the WV to SH trains and wondered if I have assumed something incorrectly. The timing load for these trains is D2 (whereas the mainline diesel trains are tonnage like D455. I assumed this meant a 2-car DMU but is this correct? Is it possible that a loco might haul a D2? There is no explanation at the front of the WTT about D2 even though it mentions the normal loading codes. I know that lots of DMUs were used for these services but presumably there could have been a few per day that were loco hauled with maybe 4 coaches? Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 13:44 #145068 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts 
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D2 is a DMU, but I didn’t think the “2” part referred to length, more it’s power characteristics. Although I don’t know exactly how it was worked out. Remember it’s a timing load, the power:weight and therefore performance/time keeping of a 2 car DMU will be as near as makes no difference the same as 2x 2 car DMUs - so I wouldn’t expect there to be different timing loads for 2 car vs 4 car of the same type - just as today a 2 car 150 or a 2 car 156 or a single 153 are all timed as DMU S 075. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lukebriner |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 13:54 #145069 | |
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lukebriner
56 posts |
Interestingly, this page: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssterms:timing_load says that D2 is an older way of saying Diesel with X carriages but I guess if it could be either DMU or loco-hauled, this is basically "2 coaches" = 1 2 car dmu or 2 coaches pulled by loco. Seems weird though since some of the locos are 47s and it seems a bit overkill to pull 2 coaches with a type-4!
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| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 13:56 #145070 | |
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lukebriner
56 posts |
And also, https://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/CIF_Codes says that D1 is one powered coach and D2 is two but both DMUs :-)
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| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 14:07 #145071 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts
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lukebriner in post 145069 said:Interestingly, this page: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssterms:timing_load says that D2 is an older way of saying Diesel with X carriages but I guess if it could be either DMU or loco-hauled, this is basically "2 coaches" = 1 2 car dmu or 2 coaches pulled by loco. Seems weird though since some of the locos are 47s and it seems a bit overkill to pull 2 coaches with a type-4!lukebriner in post 145070 said: And also, https://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/CIF_Codes says that D1 is one powered coach and D2 is two but both DMUs :-)I’m not sure the page on the SimSig wiki is correct - unfortunately for a period of time it was open for editing by any SimSig users and suffered from well-meaning but ultimately uninformed users putting things in there as fact which were incorrect. The open rail data wiki page you linked to is a good source, and (coincidentally) matches what I already told you - D2 is a DMU with two powered vehicles. Note however though that means a D2 may be a 3 car DMU formed powercar-trailer-powercar for example. Unlike more modern times not all vehicles in a 1st Generation DMU are powered. In short, the “D2” doesn’t really tell you anything about length, but a D2 is definitely timed as a DMU. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lukebriner |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 14:32 #145073 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
JamesN in post 145068 said:D2 is a DMU, but I didn’t think the “2” part referred to length, more it’s power characteristics. Although I don’t know exactly how it was worked out.The number was definitely the number of powered coaches in the formation rather than the total train length. A bit of a minefield really as D2 could be a 2 car "power twin", or it could be a 3 car with a center trailer, or it could even be a 4 car formed of two power trailer units. Incidentally as well you got a lot more go go from a power twin set rather than two power trailers together. Luke your best bet would be having a look at the www.railcar.co.uk website. There's a lot of material on there to help you narrow down what classes and the typical formations would have been. I know the Chester allocated sets ventured Shrewsbury towards Wolverhampton, but I don't know if Tyseley and Canton based units did as well. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lukebriner |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 14:43 #145074 | |
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lukebriner
56 posts |
In my TT, there is definitely ECS from Tysley but none from Cardiff, they might have worked as far as Birmingham NS. Apparently a power-twin is D3, perhaps that's because as you said, they are muchos pokey! Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 15:33 #145076 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts
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My 1975 WTT lists 6 options D1 - D4, = "Indictes formation see sectional Appendix" D5 = "InterCity DMU" so presumably a Transpennine or 126 D1(T) = "Authorised to convey tail traffic" The only one not a D2 is a DPU shown as D1 - based on being heavier ? For formations I would suggest a trawl on Flickr for 1980's images https://www.flickr.com/groups/1567829@N21/ such as https://www.flickr.com/photos/63923883@N03/44593696020/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5892803873/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/51700076056 3 car, two power one trailer, seems most common for Shrewsbury line You did get loco hauled two coaches..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/paul-green-photography/8242878176 :-) Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton 07/02/2022 at 15:37 #145077 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts
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A scan with the answers: Credit to OP here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140252-wtt-timing-load-d1-d2-d3-etc/  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: JamesN |