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| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 09:50 #145569 | |
Dionysusnu
577 posts |
postal in post 145568 said:My point is that there is a conflict between "signallers" and "gamers". The two communities want different things from SimSig which are probably irreconcilable.In what way would adding this feature have a negative impact on "signallers"? They can simply opt not to use the feature. Therefore, I wouldn't say this conflict is "irreconcilable". Compare that to, as an extreme example, if some gamers wanted to remove overlaps because they put "unnecessary constraints on areas when SimSig trains are perfect and will never overrun anyways". Implementing that would (obviously) have a negative on signallers for realism. But that's not this. Last edited: 04/03/2022 at 09:59 by Dionysusnu Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Kage |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 11:17 #145571 | |
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Anothersignalman
96 posts |
postal in post 145568 said:My point is that there is a conflict between "signallers" and "gamers". The two communities want different things from SimSig which are probably irreconcilable. I can see where you're coming from, so I'd recommend that any such additional features which make the game easier at the cost of realism be designed so that they can be switched off or ignored. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 12:37 #145573 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 145569 said:postal in post 145568 said:Every comment you make proves that there are irreconcilable differences between "signallers" and "gamers". If you want to have a discussion about requesting changes to the core code to change the user experience for whatever reason then please carry on and have the last word. That is not a discussion that is relevant to my point.My point is that there is a conflict between "signallers" and "gamers". The two communities want different things from SimSig which are probably irreconcilable.In what way would adding this feature have a negative impact on "signallers"? They can simply opt not to use the feature. Therefore, I wouldn't say this conflict is "irreconcilable". “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 04/03/2022 at 12:44 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 14:41 #145574 | |
9pN1SEAp
1180 posts |
My proposal to put the box name on calls in multi-panel sims doesn't detract from realism, as no signaller is ever in both Errol and Inverkeilor boxes at the same time IRL 
Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dionysusnu |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 15:16 #145575 | |
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Kage
65 posts |
There are no 'gamers' here. They really aren't interested in what they view as a 80's DOS text game. Its a very niche product, that requires some level of interest in the topic and time investment to see beyond that. Your point seems to be that anyone who makes a suggestion that reduces what you define as realism is a lazy gamer who want to play 'My First SigSim'. Thing is, you seem to define realism as anything that doesn't exist in reality, and your replies would seem to imply I am in that category. If I've misread it I apologize in advance. I'd like a command to type in a signal\LC and jump to it. Does that exist in reality? No. It wouldn't prevent me from learning, nor would it force other users into having something they view as unrealistic. Are you saying that the learning curve is realistic, and thus anything that reduces that is unrealistic? Having to go into a new sim knowing nothing isn't realistic, A real signaller wouldn't be dropped in a new box with knowing most of details. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dionysusnu |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 15:44 #145576 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
Kage in post 145575 said:A real signaller wouldn't be dropped in a new box with knowing most of details.And how would the signaller learn those details? Putting in the hard yards? I'm not making a point about whether "signallers" or "gamers" are the only true keepers of the Holy Grail. The only point I am making is that since the year dot there has been conflict between people who want things simplified to make things easier and people who are happy to take on the challenge of something that is difficult. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 15:57 #145577 | |
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dhouk
22 posts |
I find that when I can't find the location, going to the documentation, CTRL+F and putting the name in normally gives a good clue. But again, with a bit of looking around, train information I can often find a location without too much difficulty. A jump to location would almost feel a bit too "game-ified" for me personally. A compromise would be maybe CTRL+F on the sim, and a small text box input which if it can find that sub-string in the text strings on screen, scrolls to it. A bit like typing the headcode in the timetable editor. I have no idea how the core code looks to know if the game is even able to see strings as such. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 20:51 #145583 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
I rather not have this, what I rather have and I'm sure there are reasoning behind it but certain simulations show the interlocking area with red lines that you can turn on or off - introducing this for all simulations would be of far greater help especially when you're told of a signal failure and you need to look around the sim for it. The Welsh ones have this and it is very useful, I rather have it pushed as a loader update for all Sims but I understand it may not be possible. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dionysusnu |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 21:32 #145584 | |
Red For Danger
172 posts |
There are always differing opinions on any subject and the debate on this subject only reinforces this point. One thing though that everybody is missing is that the future of any community such as ours is the ability to create interest, stimulate curiosity and retain new users. The point has been made in previous posts on this subject and I think we all agree that SimSignallers are a niche group and I totally agree that it needs some interest in the operation of the railways to be able to operate and maintain that interest. I am by no means a gamer or a railwayman, but I find the whole concept of using my imagination in keeping a small part of the rail network functioning under differing scenarios fascinating which is probably the reason why so many of us have been around on SimSig as long as we have. As an experienced Sim-Signaller I choose to use the features I don't want to use, and for realism, I ignore a lot of the helpful features (such as the F2 train list, simplifier etc, and never read when the estimated time will be for resolution of delays). All of these are not necessarily available to real signallers, but the simple fact is that I got to where I am by having the availability and choice of using them and then deciding consciously at some point or other not to use them anymore unless absolutely necessary. By offering some helpful features to new users and making the product less impenetrable is (in my opinion) a good place to be if you want the group to continue to prosper. We are all grown-ups here, and like all other grown-ups, we can choose to use the features if we want to or ignore them if that is our preference. Unfortunately there is a growing sense that some of the 'controllers' of our group are becoming increasingly less tolerant and dis-respectful of the less experienced among us - you only have to look at some of the recent arrogant responses to reasonable requests for help from our newcomers, with the consequence that we don't hear tend to hear from them again. It is bad enough to find new users, it is even harder to keep them. If we were a shop or business, our customers would have abandoned us and we would have gone out of business long ago. For this reason alone, please have some consideration for our recent members and give them the help and support they need - they are, after all, our future. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: dhouk, bossman, JWNoctis, Soton_Speed, Dionysusnu, iainsheppard, Mikhail |
| Go to event 05/03/2022 at 14:01 #145590 | |
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Sam Tugwell
494 posts |
andyallen4014 in post 145446 said:but is it realistic in terms of the simulation?The Scalable IECC installations in Thames Valley Signalling Centre actually have a feature similar to this but only for some incidents or issues . Clicking on an message as it appears in the alarms panel will actually move the screen to the location of the issue. Probably the most common (useful) examples are an ARS Route Failed to Prove alarm or an Axle Counter Occupation alarm, but it is functional for even basic things like a train dropping out of ARS or being routed off planned path. On most IECC workstations, there is actually very little need to move the screens around as the entire area of control would fit on the screens provided, but there are certainly installations that don't have this such as the Swindon desk in TVSC. The overall point being, it is a realistic feature in some modern installations. "Signalman Exeter" Last edited: 05/03/2022 at 14:06 by Sam Tugwell Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Dionysusnu, Newhampshires |
| Go to event 05/03/2022 at 20:38 #145600 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Topics such as this do tend to get emotive for a variety of reasons. Suffice to say while we don't tend to get too directly involved in them, we do take note of what is said, and have a think about what we can do to improve things. One feature we are looking to implement (Though I wouldn't like to put a timescale on it), is to indicate which workstation an inbound telephone call is for (Singleplayer or multiplayer) Ultimately in the real world, especially in a multi-manned location, you can visually see and hear which positions concentrator (Or external phone) is ringing, or if you have role share in use on the GSMR you can see which lead signaller the person was trying to contact which tips you off as to the area most of the time. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Dionysusnu, 9pN1SEAp |