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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn?

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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 09/01/2023 at 22:23 #150094
DonRiver
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Sorry, can't post on the original thread because it's "locked due to age".

The 2Mxx trains northbound are scheduled to stop at North Pole Jn - was wondering if this is accurate?


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(named for the one in Tasmania, not in Russia)
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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 09/01/2023 at 22:33 #150095
JamesN
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Yes, they stop to change power supply from DC to/from AC
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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 09/01/2023 at 22:34 #150096
rodney30
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they normally change from DC to AC there. and vice versa going the other way.
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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 09/01/2023 at 23:22 #150097
9pN1SEAp
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Going North, pick up your shoes.
Going South, drop the pants.

Jamie S (JAMS)
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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 10/01/2023 at 17:31 #150108
mfcooper
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(The following is likely different compared to 2009. I do not know when it came into force.)

At some point, a selection of traction was given authority to do this AC/DC changeover on the move (if the train has a proceed signal aspect). I believe only Class 378 Electrostar units (as currently used by London Overground) and Class 92 locos have this permission.

Southern's class 377 Electrostar fleet did not have this authorisation, so still had to come to a stand before doing the changeover.

I do not know if this has changed in recent years, but considering that current London Overground train schedules to not have a stop at North Pole Jn in their timetables yet Southern do, I must assume that 377s never got the authorisation.

Last edited: 10/01/2023 at 17:34 by mfcooper
Reason: None given

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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 10/01/2023 at 18:02 #150109
Dionysusnu
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As per the 2022 Sectional Appendix, Local Instructions:
Quote:
Pantograph on the move procedure
Affecting LOROL services formed of class 378 units and freight train hauled by Class 92 locomotives
Down West London Line between 4m 78ch and 5m 16ch
Up West London Line Between 5m 75ch and 4m 78ch
Class 92 hauled freight trains
Drivers are authorised to change over traction at speeds up to 30 mph. Raise/Lower pantograph signs are provided as shown below.
Class 378 units
Drivers are authorised to change over traction modes in accordance with the following instructions.
Up West London Line
Drivers must regulate their train speed to 25mph on the approach to VC818 signal subject to a proceed aspect being displayed.

If a proceed aspect is NOT being displayed
Drivers must stop their train 20m on the approach to signal VC818 at danger.

After a proceed aspect is displayed
The driver must take power and accelerate to 25mph.
The driver must then start the lower pantograph procedure. A Pantograph down board is provided 57 metres beyond signal VC818 which will allow a class 378 unit to achieve 25mph. The driver must then :- [changeover procedure described]

Down West London Line
Drivers must regulate their train speed to 25mph (within 60mph zone) after departing Shepherds Bush station. Then at the dual voltage zone warning board:- [changeover procedure described]

Bi directional working and / or 8 car working
If bi directional working is in operation or working of 8 car units is taking place, then all pantograph raising or lowering procedures must be completed whilst the train is stationary. This procedure must take place at VC818 heading South or at VC813 heading North (8 Car) or VC814 heading North (bi directional working).
The above instruction is consistent with original working instructions for this area.

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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 10/01/2023 at 22:36 #150112
Guts
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mfcooper in post 150108 said:
(The following is likely different compared to 2009. I do not know when it came into force.)

At some point, a selection of traction was given authority to do this AC/DC changeover on the move (if the train has a proceed signal aspect). I believe only Class 378 Electrostar units (as currently used by London Overground) and Class 92 locos have this permission.

Southern's class 377 Electrostar fleet did not have this authorisation, so still had to come to a stand before doing the changeover.

I do not know if this has changed in recent years, but considering that current London Overground train schedules to not have a stop at North Pole Jn in their timetables yet Southern do, I must assume that 377s never got the authorisation.
So what happened was all units had the authority to changeover on the move, but a number of Southern services kept passing the changeover point without changing over, driver error.

Funnily the 378's was the opposite. 3 different drivers stopped at the changeover point BUT did something unsafe in genuine error. No one was hurt or injured. To stop any further instances they now do it on the move.

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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 11/01/2023 at 01:55 #150114
DonRiver
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Thanks folks. In the 2009 timetable the West London Line trains are mostly 313s... I guess they never changed on the move at any point in their dual-voltage careers.
(named for the one in Tasmania, not in Russia)
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Victoria Central 2009-10-15 SX v5.2 - 2Mxx stop at North Pole Jn? 11/01/2023 at 02:37 #150115
JamesN
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DonRiver in post 150114 said:
Thanks folks. In the 2009 timetable the West London Line trains are mostly 313s... I guess they never changed on the move at any point in their dual-voltage careers.
313s had to do it static; as did the 350/1s covering Southern WLL services in the 2009 TT.

While a few (then 3 car) 378s had entered service by the time of the Oct-2009 timetable; as far as our research at the time went at the time they were not conducting moving changeovers at that time.

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