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| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 15/07/2023 at 16:17 #152380 | |
DaveHarries
1285 posts |
Greetings all, Seeing as the previous thread I did on this - https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/53978 - is locked due to age I started this one instead. The scenario was that my TT of 08th May 2022 has trains running between Edenbridge and Redhill but not to Tonbridge and I questioned how I could make allowance for that. GeoffM suggested that I "could put a rule on the up train that it must enter X minutes after its down working passes Godstone - logic there being that's beyond the last point of delay for Three Bridges." While that is a welcome piece of advice the trains all call at Godstone so use of the "train that it must enter X minutes after its down working passes Godstone" rule surely implies that even if the Down working (toward Edenbridge) was delayed on arrival at Godstone the return working could still enter. Any thoughts / suggestions please? Cheers, Dave Log in to reply |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 15/07/2023 at 18:45 #152381 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Dave I would put this on the back burner just for the moment. I've just raised a Mantis report as Down Trains in the sim are not stopping at Godstone or later stations and just running non-stop until they fall off the sim. The end game for your problem will depend on the time you have between the Down train leaving Godstone and the Up train arriving at Godstone. If there is enough time for a train to run non-stop from Godstone to Tonbridge then re-enter at Tonbridge (Up Tonbridge) and get back to Godstone in the same time as one turning at Edenbridge with whatever layover is in the TT then you create a TT for the Down train non-stop from Godstone to Tonbridge and an Up train non-stop from Tonbridge (Up Tonbridge) to Godstone back-timed from the Godstone arrival with a rule that the Up train must enter x minutes after the Down train has left the sim. You work out the x minutes from how long the two non-stop Godstone - Tonbridge runs are as compared with the time to get to Edenbridge, turn and get back but if necessary for sim purposes it could be 0 minutes as there is no physical turning to take place in the SimSig TT. If there is not enough time to work with that rule, then you work the times back to a rule that the Up train must enter x minutes after the Down train passes Nutfield or even y minutes after the train passes Redhill.. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 15/07/2023 at 18:45 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 15/07/2023 at 23:02 #152385 | |
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DaveHarries
1285 posts |
postal in post 152381 said:Dave Thanks for this: I hadn't known there was a problem with Godstone. I presume that the train leaves the sim after it leaves Godstone. For reference the route between Edenbridge and Tonbridge had replacement buses on the date of the TT I am working on which is a real-life schedule not one I have devised off the top of my head. Edenbridge is not signalled bi-directional so I guess wrong-line working was in place with trains crossing over at the earliest oportunity. To give an idea of what I am working with I attach a file which shows what the timings were. One thing with whatever rule I use is the need to realise, as with 2A12, a delay to that train would be unlikely to prevent the return from appearing on time because of the layover time at Edenbridge. In the attached file, EBR = Edenbridge, GDN = Godstone. Click the thumbnail to make the info larger. Whatever is causing the problem I hope it gets fixed soon as I am keen to get the timetable tested and released ASAP. I still have 500+ errors to iron out though so I will get on with those. Cheers, Dave 
Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 15/07/2023 at 23:45 by DaveHarries Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 16/07/2023 at 09:02 #152386 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
So in the real world there is a scheduled running time of 6 minutes from Godstone to Edenbridge, a 7 minute running time from Edenbridge to Godstone plus whatever turnround time at Edenbridge. In the sim world, you need to run tests to find out what the running time is for a non-stop train from Godstone to Tonbridge and then from Tonbridge entry to Godstone. At a rough guess this looks to be about 10 minutes in each direction. If real time testing confirms that then you have at least 20 minutes of sim time from departing Godstone to the reverse train arriving at Godstone. So the first solution would be that your sim TT shows trains as non-stop Godstone to Tonbridge and then non-stop back from Tonbridge entry to Godstone. If you then set up a rule for each pair of services that the Up train must enter 0 minutes after the Down train leaves the area, that would give a time gap of 20 minutes from the Down train leaving Godstone to the Up train arriving. The timings from the real world TT you show give running time from Godstone to Edenbridge and return of 13 minutes. The rule gives the potential to pull back 2 minutes for most of the trains which have a turnround time of 9 minutes at Edenbridge (i.e. a supposed actual turnround at Edenbridge of 7 minutes). This could probably be done a bit quicker in practice but not an unreasonable assumption for the purposes of a sim TT.. However, this does not work for the first train of the day which has a 5 minute turnround at Edenbridge. The rule as set up would then cause an automatic delay in the arrival at Godstone of 2 minutes for this train. You can live with that or solve the problem by changing the rule so that the Up train must enter say 11 minutes after the Down train passes Nutfield. So the first train departs Nutfield at 0656 and the reverse working enters the sim at 0707 to arrive Godstone 0717 as per TT. If you think that the real life turnround at Edenbridge could take less than the scheduled 5 minutes you reduce the 11 minute rule by 1 minute for each minute the turnround comes down from 5 minutes. Using this rule for all trains would also allow time to be pulled back for the rest of the day when there have been delays by supposing that the minimum turnround at Edenbridge would be 5 minutes (or less) instead of the scheduled 9 minutes so pulling back more than the 2 minutes which the first proposal would allow. Nothing to stop you setting up the TT like that now as it would still work even with the Godstone non-stop problem but you would have a couple more minutes in hand while the trains pass straight through Godstone. Hope that isn't too long-winded or complicated. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DaveHarries |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 16/07/2023 at 20:13 #152387 | |
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DaveHarries
1285 posts |
Cheers Postal. I will try it at 10mins non-stop Tonbridge - Godstone and see what happens. Thanks also for the hint re. Nutfield which should be OK for the Godstone non-stop issue: if that gets fixed I can, of course, update it later if I decide to. Dave Last edited: 16/07/2023 at 20:47 by DaveHarries Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 16/07/2023 at 20:19 #152388 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
In terms of the Godstone issue, the only consequence is that the trains are getting from Nutfield to exiting the sim about a minute or a minute and a half quicker than if they had the Godstone stop. All it means until the Godstone stopping issue is resolved is that for the purposes of the sim you catch an extra minute or minute and a half back if there have been any delays. It won't affect the entry time of the Up working if things are running to time. The rule doesn't care whether you stop or pass straight through; it still times from the same point. The main downside of using the Nutfield rule rather than the rule for when the train leaves the area is that any delays at Godstone (like waiting for the wrong sort of food trolley) could mean that the Up train enters before the Down train has left Godstone. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 16/07/2023 at 20:24 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DaveHarries |
| Tonbridge Entries (again!) 16/07/2023 at 20:49 #152389 | |
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DaveHarries
1285 posts |
postal in post 152388 said:The main downside of using the Nutfield rule rather than the rule for when the train leaves the area is that any delays at Godstone (like waiting for the wrong sort of food trolley) could mean that the Up train enters before the Down train has left Godstone. Yes I did consider that. I guess I couyld amend it to say arrives / passes Godstone at some future point if Nutfield doesn't work out but it does say arrives / passes. It is a pity there isn't a rule that says *departs or passes* Godstone which would make things easier here I feel. Saying that, perhaps "arrives / passes Godstone" would work here despite the non-stopping there. I wonder... Dave Last edited: 16/07/2023 at 20:50 by DaveHarries Reason: None given Log in to reply |