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Cancel route oddity perhaps

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Doncaster (Station) > Cancel route oddity perhaps

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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 14:19 #159751
slatteryc
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Situation : Doncaster station

line up Scunthorpe towards platform 3b . Was testing the buttons and setting routes without trains and no timetable.

if you set D308 route to D298 into platform 3b to D292 i.e. not the yellow triangle, the route will illuminate as expected

however if you cancel the route it will give the 120 sec timeout - which I thought doesn't happen if there isnt a train in section

is this a bug or a feature of the interlocking in this particular sim

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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 14:21 #159752
slatteryc
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ps seems to happen on all the routes ive tested but on other sims eg new street its as expected , if there aint a train in section then the route will release without timeout
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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 14:50 #159754
kbarber
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Don't know what's specified for Doncaster, but in real life there were many boxes where the 120sec time-out applied as soon as the signal cleared, regardless of whether there was a train anywhere near. Comprehensive approach locking needed a lot more relays and circuitry; the extra £££ simply weren't in the budget when those boxes were built, except for a few locations within some boxes where it was expected routes might need to be pulled up and reset regularly and the time-out would cause problems.
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The following user said thank you: slatteryc
Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 16:47 #159756
Peter Bennet
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Cowlairs has 240s non-comprehensive approach locking on some signals.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 18:02 #159760
pedroathome
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kbarber in post 159754 said:
Don't know what's specified for Doncaster, but in real life there were many boxes where the 120sec time-out applied as soon as the signal cleared, regardless of whether there was a train anywhere near. Comprehensive approach locking needed a lot more relays and circuitry; the extra £££ simply weren't in the budget when those boxes were built, except for a few locations within some boxes where it was expected routes might need to be pulled up and reset regularly and the time-out would cause problems.
And in some boxes, some interlockings have comprehensive approach locking, and others don't, or even some signals in the same interlocking being different.

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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 18:16 #159761
jc92
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Its accurate to the real box. Non comprehensive approach locking on all signals. certainly makes you think twice before setting routes in congested areas!
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Cancel route oddity perhaps 29/12/2024 at 23:32 #159767
slatteryc
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thanks - can this be added to the manual please as its tripped me up !
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Cancel route oddity perhaps 30/12/2024 at 04:27 #159769
TUT
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slatteryc in post 159767 said:
thanks - can this be added to the manual please as its tripped me up !
To be fair, it is all in the General Information section of the User Manuals & Wiki

Quote:
Approach locking

Should you cancel a route ahead of a closely approaching train such that an approaching train incurs an ACOA, the interlocking will start a timer, known as approach locking, which gives the train time to stop. While that timer is running, the route will remain set to avoid any potential conflicts. The signal on the panel will flash red to indicate that the approach locking is in force (though the signal on the ground will show steady red). The timer duration depends on the location of the signal and the standards in force when the signalbox was designed. Typically, the timer will run for no less than 2 minutes for main signals (faster trains take longer to stop) and 30 seconds for shunt signals. For more details see Approach Locking .

Determining whether or not a train is approaching requires additional controls in the interlocking, in the form of additional wires and relays for older interlockings, or additional programming for modern interlocking. As this adds material, design and testing costs, some interlockings omit these controls, and assume that a train is always approaching. This means that approach locking will always be imposed. Additionally, approach locking is always imposed if the track approaching the signal isn't track-circuited, as there is no way of determining whether a train is approaching or not.

Note that triggering approach locking on its own does not lead to a penalty in the simulation score; only causing ACOAs does.

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssrun:routing_trains
There is also an entry in the glossary: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:glossary:approach_locking

While some individual sim manuals do, I believe, warn of long or unusual approach locking timers, I'm not sure there's anything particularly noteworthy here. I'm actually a little bit surprised someone of your experience doesn't recall encountering this before. You must be very careful and precise!

Last edited: 30/12/2024 at 04:27 by TUT
Reason: None given

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Cancel route oddity perhaps Yesterday at 14:40 #159781
slatteryc
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hi I know what it is, I was just wondering if the fact that it there was no comprehensive approach locking on the Doncaster Station Sim anywhere could be added to the manual.
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