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| Timetable 1974 15/03/2025 at 19:19 #160540 | |
bill_gensheet
1473 posts |
Just released is a Friday 1974 timetable. Available from downloads https://www.SimSig.co.uk/File/Download/3152 or via Loader and User content There is a pdf with some hints on how the headcoding has been set up and avoiding Mexicans This timetable is for a summer Friday at Euston from an 0400 start, running to 0200 Saturday. This is the first year of the new 'all electric to Glasgow' timetable and all the FO extras and reliefs (pathed in WTT but 'Suspended'  are running, so this likely represents one of the Fridays in August with several extra services for Holyhead and Heysham. It gets very busy both in the expected peak hours but also around 0700 and 2100 as the sleeper stock occupies several platforms for a long time. The timetable was written from the relevant WTT, which gave all the platforming and ECS working details along with a lot of the parcel shunts. Passenger stock is correctly allocated to the next workings as given in the WTT, although formations are fairly generic. Those specifically noted as 'Class 81-85' are retained, and 87's are allocated to the daytime Glasgow services. EMU train lengths have been assumed based on photos and stabling limitations. There is limited freight activity in the area, but the DC lines have both Euston and Broad Street services. Somewhat odd is the disposition of the 310 EMU ECS between peaks, there must have been something making Camden CS unavailable as they go all over the place, including Camden Goods - so have fun with the ground frames ! Bill Log in to reply The following users said thank you: flabberdacks, lazzer, Mikhail |
| Timetable 1974 15/03/2025 at 20:40 #160545 | |
lazzer
642 posts |
Just a quick question - should this timetable be run in 1960s or 1980s mode?
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| Timetable 1974 15/03/2025 at 20:45 #160546 | |
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bill_gensheet
1473 posts |
1980's - as preset by the timetable when you start it. It needs 'DD' as a passenger line not DECL, and uses some of the 1980's locations Bill Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lazzer |
| Timetable 1974 17/03/2025 at 20:45 #160577 | |
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lazzer
642 posts |
One question I do have about this timetable is why did you decide upon a system of using 0Z00 for all incoming engines? What is the reason for not using their next working headcode? Or is this what they were doing in 1974?
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| Timetable 1974 18/03/2025 at 11:24 #160590 | |
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bill_gensheet
1473 posts |
lazzer in post 160577 said:One question I do have about this timetable is why did you decide upon a system of using 0Z00 for all incoming engines? What is the reason for not using their next working headcode? Or is this what they were doing in 1974?Several reasons, much to do with my sanity when constructing the timetable. It allowed me to ignore the source of the loco when juggling things around. I do not have the actual loco diagramming so had to construct that, although at times the platform occupation does force a single solution as does the few limits applied at the time. A few trains were set to Class81-85 by their timings (eg a 81+7 is the same E455 timings as 86+10) and class 87's from Carlisle / Glasgow could not work the VB sleepers When trying and testing the timetable it was then easier to pick up the 'unused' locos at the reversal (ie in the future by editing F2 and matching in F4) than by 'run to another timetable' and back tracking to the inward train. As this also gives the same flexibility for users running with delays & failures I decided to keep it that way rather than set my solution to the diagrams puzzle in stone on the arriving train by eliminating all the 0Z00/$LE1Axx trains. It also looked like it would make my setting up a reduced timetable (not FRI, no reliefs) easier to construct if locos changed 'use' at the reversals. I decided most people would want maximum trains so have not produced that decision. If Euston had ACI I would have had to set the next workings at the buffers, as it is that is how I recommend doing manual TD insertion. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 19/03/2025 at 09:19 #160615 | |
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kbarber
1779 posts |
Worth remembering that in the 1965 powerbox the only locos that would have had headcodes to move around with would have been those entering or exiting the 'box control area (for the most part to & from Willesden TMD). Bankers shunting to their next working wouldn't have been given any code at all. Nor would anything moving to or from any of the holding sidings that existed around the place. The signalmen would have their 'daily orders' (a booklet produced in the AMO) that would - for the most part - have loco movements as per the diagrams but perhaps with variations for any special workings that were known and of course they'd follow that. But the TCS (who was also, effectively, the engine arranger) would often ask for short-notice changes, maybe to swap an incoming loco needing to go to Willesden for repairs or perhaps to get a particular loco north for a later next working at Control's request. In those days part of the job was situational awareness - knowing what any current loco movement was and what needed doing with it.
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| Timetable 1974 20/03/2025 at 20:05 #160631 | |
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broodje
191 posts |
Bill, I can only say, What a fun TT again. I'm really enjoying it. I was afraid it was completely without any faults, but luckily I finally found something at 20:56. Train 0Z00 (LE1A66) reverses onto backing out Roads [3]. At the same time the ECS 5S13 also stands at Backing out Roads [3]. The only way to get to the platform is by going trough the train it should actually join to. At 21:07, when 5S13 should arrive BOR 2 and 4 are free, so it is easily fixed. Again, I have not found any other problems yet, so great work! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: bill_gensheet |
| Timetable 1974 20/03/2025 at 23:25 #160633 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
I've had a couple of queries from timetable writers about the platform lengths at Euston and I'm starting to feel a bit worried, particularly since I don't remember where I got the original lengths from (I know where most of the rest came from). Does anyone have access to the Sectional Appendices that cover Euston over the 1966 to 1995 period? Or some other source of the platform lengths? Preferably after platforms 16 to 18 were added, but even before that would be a great help. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 21/03/2025 at 17:20 #160635 | |
jc92
3734 posts |
I've emailed you a 1975 one
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 21/03/2025 at 21:01 #160637 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
jc92 in post 160635 said:I've emailed you a 1975 oneThanks very much. I look forward to perusing it. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 21/03/2025 at 21:53 #160639 | |
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broodje
191 posts |
@Clive, if you are looking at Euston again, can you take a look at the locking table for routes towards down fast from platform 6-13 when a route is set from 12-15 to the BOR lines, or vise versa? There is no indication why these routes are mutually exclusive, but in practice you get a 'points locked' message.
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| Timetable 1974 22/03/2025 at 14:56 #160647 | |
Bonan
62 posts |
I'm up to 10:30 so far, and very much enjoying the timetable. Euston was the first sim I ever played in Simsig and this brings back a lot of memories!  The multiple 0Z00 headcodes took a while to get used to, but I can see why you made it that way. Once I got the hang of it I've had no issues whatsoever. I usually just interpose the next working in the inner platform berth so I know where each loco goes. One slight annoyance with the sim itself is that trains booked to run via the Park Street Tunnels/Backing out Roads challange the route at Camden Jnc even if they aren't scheduled to stop at either location (same with ECS moves from the DCS to Euston at Park Street Tunnels). I'd imagine most drivers would be happy to take the mains into Euston and get off duty or into the messroom a bit quicker (I know I do!)...
Swedish driver and part-time signaller Last edited: 22/03/2025 at 14:57 by Bonan Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 23/03/2025 at 09:52 #160659 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
broodje in post 160639 said:@Clive, if you are looking at Euston again, can you take a look at the locking table for routes towards down fast from platform 6-13 when a route is set from 12-15 to the BOR lines, or vise versa? There is no indication why these routes are mutually exclusive, but in practice you get a 'points locked' message.I can't reproduce this. I've just set up 12 to 56 and 11 to 62 (in both orders). Both set up without trouble and the signals cleared to yellow. Exactly which signals and buttons are you clicking on and what is the exact message? Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 23/03/2025 at 09:58 #160660 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
Bonan in post 160647 said:Mantis 36399 for Up trains and 36400 for Down trains. Both have been fixed and are waiting for the next release. Specific changes: 81 to 45: not called as wrong route if Backing Out Roads is shown as passing time. 91/94/103 to 82: called as wrong route if a stop at Backing Out Roads is in the timetable. 146 to 135: not called as wrong route if Backing Out Roads is shown as passing time. 146 to 135: not called as wrong route if Park Street Tunnels is shown as passing time; wrong route for Down C.S. or Up C.S. Neck will still be called if applicable. Trains allowed to take the Down Fast or Down Slow if not booked to stop at the BOR or Park Street. Trains allowed to take the Down ECL / Down Departure if not booked to stop at the BOR. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Bonan |
| Timetable 1974 23/03/2025 at 19:02 #160671 | |
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Bonan
62 posts |
Sounds excellent, Clive! Looking forward to the next update. Also, I found a minor timetable issue, 4A88 is booked to stop at Camden South Jnc, where I can only assume it's supposed to just pass through. Swedish driver and part-time signaller Last edited: 23/03/2025 at 19:07 by Bonan Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: bill_gensheet |
| Timetable 1974 25/03/2025 at 13:14 #160692 | |
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trolleybus
153 posts |
Very much enjoying this timetable. I've had one oddity. 4A88 won't complete its divide. Earlier today it sat for half an hour dividing and it never completed, so I've rolled back to 1130 to allow it to reenter and it's doing it again. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 25/03/2025 at 17:02 #160698 | |
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Dionysusnu
587 posts 
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clive in post 160659 said:broodje in post 160639 said:I just experienced this restriction as well. The route I had set to the BOR was 15-55 (P15-BOR3), which locks P335 reverse. I then tried to set 13-62 (P13-DF), which failed with "Point(s) locked reverse by another route", because it wants to lock P335 normal.@Clive, if you are looking at Euston again, can you take a look at the locking table for routes towards down fast from platform 6-13 when a route is set from 12-15 to the BOR lines, or vise versa? There is no indication why these routes are mutually exclusive, but in practice you get a 'points locked' message.I can't reproduce this. I've just set up 12 to 56 and 11 to 62 (in both orders). Both set up without trouble and the signals cleared to yellow. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 25/03/2025 at 17:24 #160699 | |
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bill_gensheet
1473 posts |
trolleybus in post 160692 said:Very much enjoying this timetable.That is as intended. The 35 minutes set for the divide-front forces a minimum unloading time for the parcels. 5A88 goes to DCS, not the parcels station which I think is full at the time Log in to reply The following user said thank you: trolleybus |
| Timetable 1974 25/03/2025 at 18:14 #160700 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 160698 said:I just experienced this restriction as well. The route I had set to the BOR was 15-55 (P15-BOR3), which locks P335 reverse. I then tried to set 13-62 (P13-DF), which failed with "Point(s) locked reverse by another route", because it wants to lock P335 normal.A quick check of the code shows that points 335 are flank-locked reverse by routes between 11-15 and BORs 3 and 4 (over track 94 in the down direction and 95 in the up direction). But they are also flank-locked normal by routes over track 127 past signal 27 in either direction. The first one is to stop a runaway from BORs 1 and 2 hitting a train coming into or out of BORs 3 and 4. I don't know why the other one off the top of my head; I'm going to have to wait until I'm at home and have time to investigate further, which may be a couple of days. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dionysusnu |
| Timetable 1974 25/03/2025 at 19:03 #160702 | |
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broodje
191 posts |
Oh great, I've had no time to recreate the situation yet. I had a bit of a busy weekend away from my pc, and somehow my phone won't run SimSig ;). If the route is set from 15 to BOR 18 there is a straight line from platform 12 towards DF, all points are set correctly. Even run away trains from BOR can not hit it if I understand the layout correctly. So that looks strange to me. Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 26/03/2025 at 00:18 #160705 | |
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Bonan
62 posts |
Another minor one, 4M81 enters from the wrong end of Camden Yard.
Swedish driver and part-time signaller Log in to reply |
| Timetable 1974 26/03/2025 at 08:22 #160706 | |
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trolleybus
153 posts |
Oh, I had no idea that splits could be slowed in this way. I did wait a long time but clearly not 35 minutes.
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| Timetable 1974 26/03/2025 at 13:02 #160711 | |
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clive
2823 posts |
broodje in post 160702 said:Okay, one problem to note is that Euston PSB used flank locking to do things that other interlockings use point-to-point locking for. That can make it hard to work things out. Also remember that the layout in the station throat is incredibly tight. (Apparently the signallers had to learn all these flank lockings by trial and error; they didn't have any documentation. And there were a lot of them.) In this case, we start with the route being set into BOR 3. To prevent a runaway from BOR 1 or 2 or from UEL1, possibly one drawn forward to shunt 28, from running into the side of the train out of 15, points 335 are swung reverse to divert any such runaway over the Down Fast and on to the Down Slow towards shunt 23. But we also want to protect moves along the Down Fast or overruns at shunt 29 from that same set of runaways. And that means swinging 335 to normal so that said runaways head for platforms 14 and 15. Which of course doesn't work if someone else is cutting across them to get into BOR 3. Or, worse, since 325 and 326 essentially form a scissors crossover, they can't both be reversed at the same time (stops you setting up two routes in an X), so those runaways will hit the train coming out of 15 head-on. So, I'm afraid, you can't win. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: broodje, Dionysusnu |
| Timetable 1974 26/03/2025 at 21:49 #160714 | |
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bill_gensheet
1473 posts |
Bonan in post 160705 said:Another minor one, 4M81 enters from the wrong end of Camden Yard.? 4M81 is set for Down end. It is the same as all the others like 4M73, 4S89 that have had a loco change in the yard. The Camden Road Jn - Camden Yard link is off sim The only ones at the up end are the ECS EMU in the evening peak Log in to reply |