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| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 21:08 #115174 | |
bugsy
1766 posts |
I have just watched a video of a cab ride from Dorking towards London. The two comments below were posted in the list of comments below the video. 1. Regrettably the same error that could have prevented the accident outside Paddington. Should be locked against CBK40 2. Bad signalling practice at Dorking. Points incorrectly set before right-away. The beginning of the video showed the points immediately in front of the train, which was waiting in platform 2, were set towards the Up line. I then saw a train leave platform 1, also in the UP direction. At first, I thought that the points for our train were incorrectly set, as per the comments above, but then I looked at the SimSig Horsham simulation and saw that in fact this set of points are interlocked with those from the Down line into platform 3 and not with those on the UP direction from platform 1. I drew my own conclusions from this, but would be interested to hear what actual signalmen have to say. SimSig screeshot attached  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 21:16 #115175 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
I would have expected both ends of that crossover to be locked Reverse. Kev Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 21:21 #115177 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Signalling engineers (qualified in flank locking) would be more qualified than signallers. I am neither but after 20 years in the railway industry creating accurate sims for both real world training, and SimSig, I think I can comment. Firstly, this scenario is virtually impossible to safely trap for the middle platform. I would argue that Ladbroke Grove - although it looks similar - is not the same as the points in question were much further apart, outside any normal distance for flank locking. Secondly, as for why the point in front of 1D32 swinging towards the up, this is likely the path of least damage should 1D32 pass the signal at danger. It runs into a same direction / side swipe situation, instead of a head-on on the down line. Thus, up trains can still depart P1 while a down arrives in P3, while a third is protected inside P2. SimSig Boss Last edited: 28/01/2019 at 21:22 by GeoffM Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Ar88 |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 21:49 #115180 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
I agree with Geoff. Path of least destruction, short of locking the crossover at both ends and preventing simultaneous movements from/to 1 and 3. Also unlike Ladbroke Grove the train is unlikely to be doing anything other than moving from a standing start, arguably reducing the risk and speed of any SPAD. Of course youtube commenter are renowned for their knowledge and experience in all railway matters, such as firing a black five over copy pit without ever making any black smoke for instance. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Edgemaster |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 22:32 #115181 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
GeoffM in post 115177 said:....... as for why the point in front of 1D32 swinging towards the up, this is likely the path of least damage should 1D32 pass the signal at danger. It runs into a same direction / side swipe situation, instead of a head-on on the down line.This is what I thought. Less damage from a side-swipe than a head-on. It looks odd at first glance though. jc92 in post 115180 said: I agree with Geoff. Path of least destruction, short of locking the crossover at both ends and preventing simultaneous movements from/to 1 and 3.Yes, You Tubers know about everything don’t they. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 28/01/2019 at 23:47 #115185 | |
clive
2789 posts |
GeoffM in post 115177 said:At the time of Ladbroke Grove, one of the signal engineers involved in the design posted on uk.railway. His comment was that there was a fair amount of debate as to the right way to flank lock that, but in the end they decided it was marginally better to do it the way they did rather than the other way. I forget the full reasoning, but one point is that a driver SPADing the signal had a lot longer to realize their mistake. Another was a building in the way of trapping line 3 separately. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 29/01/2019 at 00:27 #115186 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Maybe the overlap for the P2 up starter is across the Xover until an up train is proved at a stand in P2, then when it drops an up train can be signalled into P1. All depends on the control tables.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 29/01/2019 at 10:36 #115189 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
AndyG in post 115186 said:Maybe the overlap for the P2 up starter is across the Xover until an up train is proved at a stand in P2, then when it drops an up train can be signalled into P1. All depends on the control tables. Generally, trains departing in the Up direction from platform 2 are those that have arrived from London and have terminated. They then reverse and travel back towards London. If an Up train is signalled into platform 2, which incidentally I have never seen on the sim, there is no overlap beyond the up starter CBK39, which probably means that there is a speed restriction for this manoeuvre? Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 29/01/2019 at 22:23 #115193 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
bugsy in post 115189 said:AndyG in post 115186 said:Maybe the overlap for the P2 up starter is across the Xover until an up train is proved at a stand in P2, then when it drops an up train can be signalled into P1. All depends on the control tables. Bugsy, All stations that have Terminating Facilities, have speed restrictions! Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 29/01/2019 at 22:24 by BarryM Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 29/01/2019 at 23:31 #115195 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
BarryM in post 115193 said:bugsy in post 115189 said:This comment is like saying, all tracks have speed restrictions. So I'm not sure what point was being made.AndyG in post 115186 said:Maybe the overlap for the P2 up starter is across the Xover until an up train is proved at a stand in P2, then when it drops an up train can be signalled into P1. All depends on the control tables. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 30/01/2019 at 08:52 #115198 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
headshot119 in post 115195 said:BarryM in post 115193 said:What I was trying to explain above was that there is no overlap when an Up train is signalled into platform 2 and therefore a train’s speed has to be severely curtailed, probably more so than other routes into the station platforms which do have an overlap, although not being a railway person I could be wrong here.This comment is like saying, all tracks have speed restrictions. So I'm not sure what point was being made. Naturally, I understand that there are always speed restrictions of some sort into stations where trains are terminating as well as in other situations. Apologies for any apparent ignorance in these matters. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Two Comments about point setting at Dorking (Not mine) 30/01/2019 at 09:31 #115199 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
bugsy in post 115189 said:AndyG in post 115186 said:Hmm... free yellow into P2 at CBK41, with no overlap at all at CBK39. Doesn't quite look right to me.Maybe the overlap for the P2 up starter is across the Xover until an up train is proved at a stand in P2, then when it drops an up train can be signalled into P1. All depends on the control tables. Log in to reply |