1D71 and clearing TC using F11

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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 31/08/2022 at 19:04 #147782
bugsy
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1795 posts 		I’ve had a TC failure on the Down Main at Shaftholme Jn and it hasn’t been much of a problem up until now as all trains have been going towards Temple Hirst Jn.
I used the facility in F11 to ‘unoccupy’ the TC so that I could send 1D71 towards Knottingley.
I have since set the TC back to ‘occupied’ as can be seen in the screenshot.

I feel that I have cheated. Are signallers actually able to do this in reality?
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 31/08/2022 at 19:27 #147783
Steamer
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3997 posts 		bugsy in post 147782 said:
Are signallers actually able to do this in reality?
No, this is a 'hand of god' tool.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 31/08/2022 at 20:19 #147784
jc92
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3701 posts 		This subject has been covered several times in the last year. A signaller can't do it, but an S&T technician can. The issue is that the time and complication of the process along with the risk essentially make it a pointless endeavour.

What you could look to do in such a situation is use the "hand crank points" option on the F11 menu to simulate a MOM or other competent person working as a points operator under your instruction. The points will move even though the TC is occupied, but you won't get a route set and proven. the train can then be talked past the protecting signal.

things to consider:
1) it takes the MOM some time to reach a location from wherever they are (assuming they're free of course) as they'll have to drive and then walk. as a result you'll need to leave a suitable delay before doing this. You'd then have to have a conversation and come to a clear understanding as to what will happen and how.
2) It takes a lot longer to hand crank points on the ground than it does in Simsig as you have to walk to them, /pump them over, clamp them (then repeat if its a crossover) then call up the signaller and confirm what you've done

Its not a particularly fun option for either the points operator or the signaller

TL;DR - what steamer said!
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 31/08/2022 at 20:31 #147785
bugsy
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1795 posts 		jc92 in post 147784 said:
This subject has been covered several times in the last year. A signaller can't do it, but an S&T technician can. The issue is that the time and complication of the process along with the risk essentially make it a pointless endeavour.

What you could look to do in such a situation is use the "hand crank points" option on the F11 menu to simulate a MOM or other competent person working as a points operator under your instruction. The points will move even though the TC is occupied, but you won't get a route set and proven. the train can then be talked past the protecting signal.

things to consider:
1) it takes the MOM some time to reach a location from wherever they are (assuming they're free of course) as they'll have to drive and then walk. as a result you'll need to leave a suitable delay before doing this. You'd then have to have a conversation and come to a clear understanding as to what will happen and how.
2) It takes a lot longer to hand crank points on the ground than it does in Simsig as you have to walk to them, /pump them over, clamp them (then repeat if its a crossover) then call up the signaller and confirm what you've done

Its not a particularly fun option for either the points operator or the signaller

TL;DR - what steamer said!
Ok. Maybe I'll just wait for the TC to clear in future. Thanks
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 01/09/2022 at 08:00 #147786
kbarber
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1764 posts 		Is there a potential feature request here? (Mods, please split this if you feel it would be better.) It would be a 'fun extra' with no bearing on the working of the sim itself, apart from being triggered when a set of points fails.

Sequence is that, when points fail, you are asked if you want points to be hand-cranked. Sim then starts a random timer. (Where there are eras, the timer might be a good deal shorter for - say - pre-1994, to reflect that a member of local station staff would have been trained to wind points, before the railway was dis-integrated for privatisation.) After a random delay, the timer puts up a message saying points operator is now on site. If you want to play by the rules, that's the time when you give yourself permission to use F11 and hand crank the points. But nothing to stop you cheating if you've a showstopper and don't want to be completely messed up (well, I suppose a driver stopped within sight of the points might - unofficially - wander down and give them a good kick :-) ).

A further enhancement might be that, if a second failure occurs before the first is repaired, the second timer runs for longer in the post-'94 eras.

Any thoughts, Geoff & Clive?
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 01/09/2022 at 11:10 #147787
9pN1SEAp
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1189 posts 		For the Railtrack era, you could add a feature that the point blade has randomly cracked and the game terminates immediately ;-)
Jamie S (JAMS)
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 01/09/2022 at 13:17 #147792
Chromatix
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190 posts 		Anecdotally, it was not unknown for drivers stuck behind known-troublesome points to wander over and see if the usual trouble had recurred, and if it was something simple like a lump of ballast caught in an awkward position, to borrow a tool to safely dislodge it. That could un-stop the job without the need to wait for a MOM or S&T tech.

SimSig does already have a feature where you can call failed points back and forth, and sometimes that clears the fault. Signal lamps also often fail in such a way that you can still get traffic past them without having to "talk" - ironically, a Red lamp failure is often the least troublesome in this regard. Alas, there is no such serendipity with TC failures.
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 02/09/2022 at 08:10 #147803
kbarber
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1764 posts 		Chromatix in post 147792 said:

SimSig does already have a feature where you can call failed points back and forth, and sometimes that clears the fault. Signal lamps also often fail in such a way that you can still get traffic past them without having to "talk" - ironically, a Red lamp failure is often the least troublesome in this regard. Alas, there is no such serendipity with TC failures.
That was always the first port of call if you didn't get detection first time. I'd never declare a points failure before I'd driven them back & forth 2 or 3 times. Same with mechanical points in fact, with the additional feature that you could try moving the lever differently (easing it over rather than a good heave for instance), which again might sometimes clear the problem.
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 03/09/2022 at 09:57 #147810
Ron_J
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335 posts 		On a related note, would it be possible for Simsig to simulate conditional and unconditional axle counter resets and associated aspect restrictions?
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1D71 and clearing TC using F11 03/09/2022 at 20:04 #147822
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		Ron_J in post 147810 said:
On a related note, would it be possible for Simsig to simulate conditional and unconditional axle counter resets and associated aspect restrictions?
Theoretically, yes. Getting the data for the sweeps is a little more difficult though.
SimSig Boss
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