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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 17:15 #95241 | |
bugsy
1761 posts |
I'm playing the 2003 default TT Loader version of Peterborough and am intrigued bt the signals showing a red aspect at Little Bytham (see attached picture). Would someone with local knowledge please explain their purpose. Thanks in advance Bugsy Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 17:22 #95242 | |
pedroathome
915 posts |
bugsy in post 95241 said:I'm playing the 2003 default TT Loader version of Peterborough and am intrigued bt the signals showing a red aspect at Little Bytham (see attached picture). Would someone with local knowledge please explain their purpose.Eerm, you haven't attached a picture Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 17:53 #95243 | |
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bugsy
1761 posts |
pedroathome in post 95242 said:bugsy in post 95241 said:Opps. Give me a minute.I'm playing the 2003 default TT Loader version of Peterborough and am intrigued bt the signals showing a red aspect at Little Bytham (see attached picture). Would someone with local knowledge please explain their purpose.Eerm, you haven't attached a picture Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Last edited: 20/05/2017 at 17:54 by bugsy Reason: Picture now attached Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 20:33 #95244 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
bugsy in post 95241 said:I'm playing the 2003 default TT Loader version of Peterborough and am intrigued bt the signals showing a red aspect at Little Bytham (see attached picture). Would someone with local knowledge please explain their purpose.I assume a wayside stop. The station closed in September 1959. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 20:42 #95245 | |
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bugsy
1761 posts |
I assume a wayside stop. The station closed in September 1959. Barry So the signalling wasn't updated then? Too costly I suppose. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 21:01 #95246 | |
jc92
3683 posts |
bugsy in post 95245 said:I assume a wayside stop. The station closed in September 1959.The signalling wasnt in place in 1959! The PSB opened between 72 and 77. I would think it has something to do either with a former yard or ground frame which was removed early in the Panels life or else is just a standard requirement for a controlled signal to be placed as there is such a long string of automatics. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 21:31 #95248 | |
postal
5260 posts 
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jc92 in post 95246 said:The signalling wasnt in place in 1959! The PSB opened between 72 and 77.Either reason could also apply to S298/S300 on the Up lines at Little Barford. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 22:08 #95252 | |
nnr
170 posts |
There used to be emergency crossovers there.
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 20/05/2017 at 22:43 #95255 | |
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bandiez
62 posts |
If I remember rightly I believe they are there in the real world at both little bytham and at little barford to protect the overhead neutral sections that are at the locations. Hope that helps
Last edited: 20/05/2017 at 22:43 by bandiez Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 21/05/2017 at 09:02 #95263 | |
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bugsy
1761 posts |
That's all very interestin guys. Thanks for the info.
Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 24/05/2017 at 23:14 #95357 | |
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chrisdmadd
235 posts
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Yep protection for the OHNS there's a few like that on this sim.
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 26/05/2017 at 11:44 #95394 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
The OHLE cut-off was mitigated in 2009 with the installation of a new wiring and power system. The neutral section was moved to between Milepost 77.5 and Milepost 78.25. (A little further South.) The red aspect in real life is due to a section of faulty wire (from 1993-2013) that took two decades to troubleshoot. One of my closest friends is signalling and train deployment manager for Stevenage to Newark N. Gate (Peterborough Sector). Another possibility is that there is an Automatic Tailback Signal Check (ATSC-DA) to minimise delays further down the line for the double track Stoke Tunnel. TPWS has been installed for 140mph running ever since Class 91s (IC225) were introduced in the early 90s. Therefore no manual signals are required. The emergency crossovers cease to exist, following the restructuring of Peterborough Station's layout whilst building Platforms 6&7. A re-wiring is taking place as we speak. I hope that helps! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 26/05/2017 at 12:42 #95397 | |
Steamer
3982 posts
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CTD Sig in post 95394 said:The OHLE cut-off was mitigated in 2009 with the installation of a new wiring and power system. The neutral section was moved to between Milepost 77.5 and Milepost 78.25. (A little further South.)MP 78.25 is just north of New England North Jn, and the location of Bretton F.S. neural section, according to the Sectional Appendix. This thread is discussing Little Bytham. Bytham OHNS is located at 92m 29ch. Data per Sectional Appendix published online, updated 4th March 2017. CTD Sig said: TPWS has been installed for 140mph running ever since Class 91s (IC225) were introduced in the early 90s.The Class 91s were introduced to service in 1989. The first trackside trials of TPWS did not take place until 1997, according to this RAIB report (Appendix E) CTD Sig said: The emergency crossovers cease to exist, following the restructuring of Peterborough Station's layout whilst building Platforms 6&7.Which emergency crossovers are these? The ones at Little Bytham have been gone for a lot longer than the new layout (they aren't shown in a 2006 Quail map). CTD Sig said: One of my closest friends is signalling and train deployment manager for Stevenage to Newark N. Gate (Peterborough Sector).I'm quite confused by that job title. What are your friend's responsibilities? Signalling is Network Rail's job, I would've thought 'train deployment' was in the TOC's remit? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 26/05/2017 at 12:47 by Steamer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 08:31 #95440 | |
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Late Turn
697 posts |
What is this "ATSC-DA" thing, then? I've never ever heard of it (as, until recently, a Signalman working to one of Peterborough's fringes), and a Google search only points to this thread. Is it fictional?
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 11:23 #95444 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Late Turn in post 95440 said:What is this "ATSC-DA" thing, then? I've never ever heard of it (as, until recently, a Signalman working to one of Peterborough's fringes), and a Google search only points to this thread. Is it fictional?I was curious as well, but I can't find any reference to the term anywhere online but this thread. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 18:04 #95449 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
ATSC-DA: Automatic Tailback Signal Check-Delays Avoidance This system was developed on the Exeter line c.2012 to minimise delays by moving the tailback for Newark N. Gate, Retford and Doncaster stopping trains (i.e. Non-Grantham and not the express to York trains) to prevent start-stop movement. An 'expert' decided its illogical use at Little Bytham, Great Ponton and Corby Glen was justified. My friend's colleagues are trying to get it removed. However, box-tickers from the RAIB and the HSE think something illogical is 'safe' (so they can side-step any legal responsibility if something goes wrong. It's actually more likely to cause an incident with it because any matter is more easily dismissed by the signalman as 'ATSC-DA doing its weird thing again' rather than 'What's happened? Why is my train stopping in the middle of nowhere? Sorry about the Class 91 mix-up. Anyway, TPWS (with a different name) WAS used since the Class 91 came on. Regarding the Emergency Crossovers, they were left there (though the HSE would have probably had something to say about their condition if they were formally 'operational'.) until properly removed after restructuring. Regarding my friend's job, because VTEC (previously EC) is not the only operator (compared to say, the Brighton ML, where Govia is the sole company.) NR have to approve the timetables. Also, during works periods, NR normally take over timetabling from the TOCs in order to keep the timetable flowing. Little Bytham was removed and directly substituted by Fletton. Hope that helps! Any more questions that have nothing to do with this, please put that under a new thread if you can. This helps for me to go through the questions. I will hopefully let my friend answer a few questions if/when she comes round. Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 18:26 #95452 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
CTD Sig in post 95449 said:ATSC-DA: Automatic Tailback Signal Check-Delays AvoidanceTPWS with another name? Care to tell us what it was called? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 18:32 #95453 | |
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jc92
3683 posts |
Still never heard of this ATSC system. Drivers following a slower train on yellows/double yellows drive slower to try and keep moving but if they stop,they stop. Never heard of TPWS by another name (unless you mean ATC which was definetely never fitted to a 91). Regarding timetabling, NR do all the timetabling (minor exceptions for FOCs sorting VSTP and STP paths) TOCs can request a path but they dont timetable it in the true sense. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 28/05/2017 at 22:48 #95459 | |
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Late Turn
697 posts |
How exactly does this ATSC-DA (that none of us have ever heard of) work then, especially on a relay interlocking? Why would the RAIB or HSE have become involved in its operation, unless there's been a serious incident in which it was a factor? This 'signalling and train deployment' manager or whatever - NR put the working timetable together for all operators, everywhere, based on the bids that TOCs put in. It's mostly done centrally, with a few bits still done on a regional basis. It isn't done on a local level like this. This job description doesn't add up? Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 29/05/2017 at 08:29 #95460 | |
Peter Bennet
5400 posts |
headshot119 in post 95444 said:Late Turn in post 95440 said:Maybe if Kurt is reading this he will tell us as he works at PBO box.What is this "ATSC-DA" thing, then? I've never ever heard of it (as, until recently, a Signalman working to one of Peterborough's fringes), and a Google search only points to this thread. Is it fictional?I was curious as well, but I can't find any reference to the term anywhere online but this thread. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 29/05/2017 at 21:39 #95463 | |
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clive
2781 posts |
Peter Bennet in post 95460 said:Not any more. Log in to reply |
| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 30/05/2017 at 09:27 #95467 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
TPWS' other name is ATPS.
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 30/05/2017 at 09:27 #95468 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
Advanced Train Protection System
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 30/05/2017 at 09:33 #95469 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
No, the TTs are done on a regional basis. The Peterborough Sector covers ECML Stevenage to Newark, XC Line to Melton, the XC line to Ely, the Lincon line and even a small part of the GEML.
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| Red aspects at Little Bytham?? 30/05/2017 at 09:43 #95470 | |
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jc92
3683 posts |
CTD Sig in post 95469 said:No, the TTs are done on a regional basis. The Peterborough Sector covers ECML Stevenage to Newark, XC Line to Melton, the XC line to Ely, the Lincon line and even a small part of the GEML.Timetabling is all done centrally in Milton Keynes. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Stephen Fulcher, kaiwhara |