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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 07/03/2012 at 21:53 #30461 | |
metcontrol
217 posts |
" said:" said:Yes :blush: I was the controller in the control room who was wearing the blue (came out grey) shirt. Thanked a train for their information, looked around in what appeared to be a dazed manner (because you couldn't see what I was looking at) and scratched my head at the end of my piece - something which my wife likes to emphasise, not least because she was able to point out my (very slightly) thinning hair(for instance the incident I was filmed as controller for on this program)were you in it then? :woohoo: 
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 07:23 #30465 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
One thing puzzled me. Their VDU display shows only 3-digit descriptions (no letters, only numbers) in each berth. Even empty berths display "???". You can see this at about 17:54 in the episode. Obviously they're using their own software for the LU, not the standard IECC display, however I expected to see 4-character descriptions. Can anyone throw any further light on this?
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 08:55 #30466 | |
Peter Bennet
5375 posts |
As per discussion on the Wembley Sub thread LU use three charater train numbers so they only need to display 3 charaters. The trip number is not displayed. Off at a slight tangent I recall reading somewhere that certain digits can't be used. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 08/03/2012 at 08:56 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 08:56 #30467 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
" said:One thing puzzled me. Their VDU display shows only 3-digit descriptions (no letters, only numbers) in each berth. Even empty berths display "???". You can see this at about 17:54 in the episode. Obviously they're using their own software for the LU, not the standard IECC display, however I expected to see 4-character descriptions. Can anyone throw any further light on this? Yes, LUL only use 3 numbers to describe a train, and each 'run' is designated a trip number as well. For example, on the Piccadily Line train 262 trip 2 departs Heathrow Terminal 4 at 0623 arriving at Cockfosters at 0757 to form the 0804 Uxbridge which is train 262 trip 3. Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 10:10 #30468 | |
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Peter Bennet
5375 posts |
A question I have relates to times of disruption where trains may terminated early and generally get out of timetable order. In getting the service back to normal are the running numbers reallocated to different units so the timetable remains in place or do you end up with running numbers and timetables mismatching for the rest of the day? For example Southbound Victoria line trains might terminate at Victoria and return North- so if train 220 arrives to timetable Southbound but then returns Northbound to the timetable of 214 is it renumbered to 214? Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 10:18 #30469 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:As per discussion on the Wembley Sub thread LU use three character train numbers so they only need to display 3 characters. The trip number is not displayed.Thanks. I should have remembered that from that thread. Last edited: 08/03/2012 at 10:20 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 10:39 #30470 | |
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kbarber
1719 posts |
" said:One thing puzzled me. Their VDU display shows only 3-digit descriptions (no letters, only numbers) in each berth. Even empty berths display "???". You can see this at about 17:54 in the episode. Obviously they're using their own software for the LU, not the standard IECC display, however I expected to see 4-character descriptions. Can anyone throw any further light on this? LT use their own signalling systems & interfaces, which often differ from the "big railway", although there are some points of contact. They were early adopters of power signalling, with standard miniature lever frames as used by the main line companies. Somewhat later, after all-electric interlocking had become available (the Westinghouse Style L and its competitors), the Style N was developed for LT, that (for the first time) used fully pre-fabricated mechanical interlocking that only needed assembling. (Previously all interlocking was fitted up on site by skilled locking fitters; altering the locking of a big frame was a major - and very expensive - job, something that the all-electric principle substantially overcame. LT's CS&TE - Robert? Richard? Dell - was suspicious of too much electrickery in his signalling systems, hence the Style N.) For remote control they went down the road of mechanically interlocked lever frames (later nothing more than handles on the rotating shafts that carried the cams of the locking mechanism and the switch bands) worked by compressed air; that allowed cheap telephone technology to be used for the bulk of the cabling from a central control room, with the vastly more expensive safety-critical stuff confined to the short distance from Interlocking Machine Room to the points & signals concerned. Some of these remote interlockings were themselves worked from lever frames of various kinds - almost a subject in itself. Descriptions were varied, but always simply the train destination (perhaps a fast/semi/slow indicator up the Met line?) and many were operated manually for each train, although the Met (again) and the District certainly acquired fully automatic transmission. Lever frames gave way to pushbuttons, but OCS rather than NX operation. Then came programme machines - basically a punched tape - that operated the compressed air mechanisms driving the local frames, with supervision from a central Regulating Room; now train numbers started to be shown too, for the benefit of the regulators and their co-located line controllers. (I did once manage to get into Earls Court, using my status as a signalman learning Kensington South Main; a very impressive place, with lots of control desks and an indication panel that pretty much went right round the room.) The present displays will have been developed from them, I imagine. There's no reason at all why they should resemble the IECC interface - it's a separate company with entirely different requirements and a very different way of working - even though the fundamental interlocking principles under the bonnet are almost identical. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 13:45 #30471 | |
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ExDistrictDriver
30 posts |
Peter, MetControl will probably answer better than me as he does this all day every day! From my time driving on the District, when trains are short-tripped and out of sequence, the controllers will basically just renumber trains to get them back in order. Quite a tricky thing to do but I remember it being done on a very regular basis on the District! @MetControl: at least I know what you look like now! Still never got round to having a cup of Yorkshire Tea with you!! Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 14:06 #30472 | |
NCC1701
129 posts |
" said:As per discussion on the Wembley Sub thread LU use three charater train numbers so they only need to display 3 charaters. The trip number is not displayed.Numbers 8 & 9 aren't used. Tubeprune explains the reason Signalman Exeter West & Llangollen Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 14:13 #30473 | |
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NCC1701
129 posts |
" said:A question I have relates to times of disruption where trains may terminated early and generally get out of timetable order. In getting the service back to normal are the running numbers reallocated to different units so the timetable remains in place or do you end up with running numbers and timetables mismatching for the rest of the day?I would imagine this functions like it does on the buses, where the same basic concept of a day-long running number is used. The train will retain its running (or "set"  number and take up its next scheduled trip on time. So if your train 220 was turned short at Victoria it will wait in the siding until it can pick up 220's next NB trip at Victoria rather than assuming 214's identity.
Signalman Exeter West & Llangollen Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 19:04 #30474 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:Signallers and drivers, both professional and armchair, should find episode 3 very interesting. Maxan, How did you view the program? I assume you were in Melbourne. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 21:08 #30475 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
he isn't allowed to say. i think that tells you how
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 08/03/2012 at 22:31 #30476 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks Keith for another wonderfully illuminating insight into all this. Quote: For remote control they went down the road of mechanically interlocked lever frames (later nothing more than handles on the rotating shafts that carried the cams of the locking mechanism and the switch bands) worked by compressed airAmazing how compressed air gets used for so many things. Anyone who follows model railroad building will probably know that in the more expensive layouts, particularly outdoor ones, a very reliable way to switch points is by using compressed air. So this idea has even filtered down to model railways. It's been around a long time. Also used to power model steam trains. Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 09/03/2012 at 05:18 #30480 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:he isn't allowed to say. i think that tells you how :laugh:Darn it! Of course he can't, but Google can. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 09/03/2012 at 05:19 by BarryM Reason: spelling Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 09/03/2012 at 15:32 #30494 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:For example Southbound Victoria line trains might terminate at Victoria and return North- so if train 220 arrives to timetable Southbound but then returns Northbound to the timetable of 214 is it renumbered to 214?I would expect it to be, unless there was an issue with it not getting back to the depot for maintenance (but presumably you could do another swap at a convenient time). I've been on Met. train (say) 234 approaching Wembley Park from the south. There must have been an issue, because another train 234 came up from the diveunder from Neasden Depot. Our 234 was terminated short at Harrow-on-the-Hill and the other one took over. Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 09/03/2012 at 15:34 #30495 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:Numbers 8 & 9 aren't used.8 and 9 aren't used on routes that still have Programme Machines, because they only assign three channels per digit to save space. I've seen 8 and 9 used on some lines (though I forget which offhand). Similarly some Programme Machine lines only use numbers up to 377 because there are 8 channels for train numbers, not 9. Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 10/03/2012 at 22:32 #30528 | |
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metcontrol
217 posts |
" said:A question I have relates to times of disruption where trains may terminated early and generally get out of timetable order. In getting the service back to normal are the running numbers reallocated to different units so the timetable remains in place or do you end up with running numbers and timetables mismatching for the rest of the day?When the service is "messed up" there are generally 2 ways of sorting it out. 1). Short-trip each train - whilst still providing a service to all destinations. For instance.. Southbound Train 1 will run through to the end of the line, with Train 2 (right behind) turning short, to form its own trip back northbound. In doing this, generally Train 2 will end up running ahead of Train 1 on the northbound, and will run through to the end of the line. Train 1 - which may now be behind - can now be turned short on the northbound. So using the Victoria Line as an example, Train 1 goes to Brixton, Train 2 reverses Victoria. On the north, Train 2 goes to Walthamstow, Train 1 reverses at Seven Sisters. All stations get a (reduced) service and the service will eventually be back on time. 2). Reform each train to a right-time service. For instance... Where there are due to be several Train Operator reliefs (change of operator due to meal-relief / shift change) each train can be "reformed" into what becomes a right-time train. So train 1, running 10 late, arrives at Seven Sisters at the time of Train 3. Train 3 is due to have a change of operator, so we make Train 1 into Train 3 and put the correct operator on it. This can (hopefully) continue for many other trains until the service is right-time. 3). And most likely - use both the above methods and try and keep track of what you are doing It's simply a game of chess, and you hope that everything goes to plan, but it rarely does. You set up a reform and find out the new driver is still driving another train. You set up a short-tripping only to find that the train ahead becomes defective and must short-trip instead. You also need to keep track of what you are doing. It is no good planning 2 reversers for a location that can only take 1. Also no good planning 2 trains to make Train 3, as there will only be 1 driver ready to drive a Train 3. Overall, we do keep track of our stock, but so do the depot, and if any particular stock is needed we can normally perform other reformations to put the stock onto a booked stabling train. Our stock patterns are not as critical as National Rail, as it is unlikely our stock will need re-fuelling nor end up at the other end of the country - well we would hope not If I have confused you, good. If not, I'm not telling you anymore or, like some people, you'll think you can come and do my job
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 10/03/2012 at 22:34 #30529 | |
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metcontrol
217 posts |
" said:@MetControl: at least I know what you look like now! Still never got round to having a cup of Yorkshire Tea with you!! It's a long time since somebody mentioned Yorkshire Tea to me. We still have it at home, but since I became a controller we drink all that fancy coffee stuff, made in a machine in the office I work in. So I'm afraid I've let my standards slip Hope you are keeping ok 
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 12/03/2012 at 21:22 #30587 | |
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Ben86
126 posts |
TV Highlight of the Week: "Dave wants to see what his new train feels like from behind the wheel."
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 13/03/2012 at 22:54 #30622 | |
nroberts
227 posts |
After yesterday's episode two more have been scheduled (according to sharetv.org): Episode 5: March 19th Episode 6: March 26th All at 9 PM on Beeb 2 Regards, NR Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 14/03/2012 at 02:31 #30625 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Couldn't find an episode guide on sharetv.org but Wikipedia confirms there will be 6 episodes.
Last edited: 14/03/2012 at 02:32 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 14/03/2012 at 05:47 #30627 | |
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computeringjl
29 posts |
someone seems to have stopped creating episode titles!! :huh:
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| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 14/03/2012 at 14:38 #30639 | |
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nroberts
227 posts |
" said:Couldn't find an episode guide on sharetv.org but Wikipedia confirms there will be 6 episodes.Main Wiki Article on http://sharetv.org/shows/the_tube_uk_uk Listings on http://sharetv.org/shows/the_tube_uk_uk/listings Unfortunately there is little or no information (except for the schedule). Regards, NR Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 14/03/2012 at 14:45 #30640 | |
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Peter Bennet
5375 posts |
If it helps for those not be able to access the BBC web-site; it says for episode 5: Episode 5 of 6 Duration: 1 hour Going behind the scenes of the world's oldest, largest and busiest underground train network as it undergoes the biggest overhaul in its history. Rush hour is the Tube's biggest test - but it can be too much for some passengers. Station Supervisor Bob Weedon at Bank has to deal with five injuries and faintings in a row during one rush hour crush. Chief operating officer Howard Collins must muck in when a power failure on the Jubilee Line threatens to disrupt the evening peak. And the Tube's most unusual employee, a hawk called Toyah, is put to work on pigeon patrol. Nothing for 6 yet Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 14/03/2012 at 14:45 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply |
| Re: BBC Two are going deeper Underground in new docu. 14/03/2012 at 17:59 #30644 | |
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bubblegut
15 posts |
The next two episodes are due on the 19th & 26th March 12 on BBC2 at 2100. [Deleted as I think it's referring to illegal downloading] .
Last edited: 14/03/2012 at 20:12 by Peter Bennet Reason: As stated Log in to reply |