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| Carlisle 79-80TT 01/12/2012 at 20:11 #38386 | |
58050
2659 posts |
I've just checked the timetable & that may need to be edited for the next update. Looks like I missed something there. Sorry chaps, but thanks for pointing it out. However 5M70 did move OK to platform 6 via the shunt neck I take it, cos it always has done for me?
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| Carlisle 79-80TT 01/12/2012 at 20:25 #38388 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
Sorry but 5M70 wouldn't move full stop for me - no engine as reported in Train List. Glad to be of service though, am enjoying the sim even if at times my hair feels like it's going grey while I try to regulate to the best of my ability! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 01/12/2012 at 20:29 #38390 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
That 1979-1980 timetable will certainly keep you on your toes.
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| Carlisle 79-80TT 01/12/2012 at 20:56 #38393 | |
postal
5264 posts |
" said:Sorry but 5M70 wouldn't move full stop for meThat is exactly the behaviour I would expect. The capability of the core code has moved on while Carlisle has been under development and it can now handle unpowered stock sitting and waiting for traction. 5M70 is designed not to have power (it is 8 Mk. 1 coaches that have been dropped from the back of 5S50 ex Upperby). Until 0M70 comes out of Wapping Sidings, it will have no traction and will not move. There is nothing abnormal or unexpected about that. Once 0M70 has come out of Wapping Sidings and attached, the train then has power and will move to the Shunt Neck and then P6. This move has been tested lots and lots of times while the TT has been under development and has worked successfully every time. So, a couple of questions to try and pin down whether a bug has suddenly appeared: 1) Does the TT for 5M70 show its first location as Carlisle P3 with an action of J 0M70? 2) Does 0M70 show in the TT (even if it has not yet appeared to join 5M70)? 3) If it is after due entry time for 0M70, is there any delay showing in the front tab of the 0M70 timetable? 4) If 0M70 has appeared and after you have zig-zagged it via Siding 2 and CE291 into P3 does it join to 5M70? 5) After it has joined will the train move to the Shunt Neck and ultimately P6? In regard to the lengths, 5S50 is 284m. on departure from Upperby. It splits in P3 and forms 1S50 (130m) and 5M70 (154m) so that is consistent. 0M70 (19m) then joins 5M70 (154m) so that the core code is now computing 5M70 as 173m. This now runs into P6 and forms 1M70. By some miracle of good luck, the TT shows 1M70 as 173m. as well. The platform length is a strange one as Sectional Appendix and Rules of the plan both confirm Tom's figure, but the train fits into the TC behind the signal. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 01/12/2012 at 22:09 by postal Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 02/12/2012 at 10:05 #38399 | |
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ajax103
1120 posts |
" said:That 1979-1980 timetable will certainly keep you on your toes.It certainly does, I've been playing it every day since it's been released for a hour or two and I'm still being kept busy with it! " said: " said:I should have said that I couldn't use Platform 3 at the time as I had a few late running services and I had put 5K22 into Platform 3 before 5M70 which had to shunt itself.Sorry but 5M70 wouldn't move full stop for meThat is exactly the behaviour I would expect. The capability of the core code has moved on while Carlisle has been under development and it can now handle unpowered stock sitting and waiting for traction. 5M70 is designed not to have power (it is 8 Mk. 1 coaches that have been dropped from the back of 5S50 ex Upperby). Until 0M70 comes out of Wapping Sidings, it will have no traction and will not move. There is nothing abnormal or unexpected about that. As a result I had sent 5M70 into Platform 4 and shunted 0M70 from Wapping Sidings into Platform 1 then into Shunt Neck then again onto 5M70 in Platform 4. It then states 5M70 is in the way but when I update it's location as to being on Platform 4, 0M70 immediately starts to couple up to 5M70. So what I did bearing in mind the Sim auto saves, I restarted it from 10 minutes prior and updated 5M70 to be Class 47 & 8 Mk1s and that worked fine for me. What I can't understand is why can't I set a route from Platform 1 towards London BUT can set a route from London into Platform 1??? Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 02/12/2012 at 10:14 #38400 | |
jc92
3685 posts 
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" said:set it from 314 to 301 (end of the platform) then to 278 at upperby jcn. the train runs bang road to upperby junction. The reason you "cant" set it from P1 to london is becuase if you look at the track layout at carlisle south junction, there isnt a suitable arrangement of crossovers and slips. hence the train runs up over the down to upperby. coming in from london is no issue as the train is already on the down line. Joe "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 02/12/2012 at 10:22 #38401 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:What I can't understand is why can't I set a route from Platform 1 towards London BUT can set a route from London into Platform 1???If you read the covering notes which accompany the TT, you will see that this point is explicitly mentioned along with the route you can use for Up trains ("it should be remembered that trains from P1/2/3 to the Up Main can be routed along the Down Main to Upperby Jn by clicking directly from the starter signal to CE 278 on the Up Main at Upperby Junction avoiding CE 285"). “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 02/12/2012 at 10:25 #38402 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:I should have said that I couldn't use Platform 3 at the time as I had a few late running services and I had put 5K22 into Platform 3 before 5M70 which had to shunt itself.I'm not following what you have done here. Did you let 1K22 get away, then put 5S50 into P4, dropping 5M70 there? If so, why would it need to shunt itself? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 02/12/2012 at 10:26 by postal Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 11:02 #38512 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:Found another problem :)I'm still trying to work out what has gone wrong here in case there is a bug which has not been found before. You quote the length of 5M70 as 192m. Where did this figure come from - was it the TT or was it reported through F2? The train should be 173m. long (Cl. 47 + 8 x Mk 1 coach). The TT will show 154m. as that is the length before the join and F2 should show 173m. after 0M70 has joined. 1M70 should then show the correct length in both TT and F2 of 173m. Have you actually managed to get 2 locos onto the train while you have been trying to sort things out? The 19m. discrepancy is the difference in length an extra Cl.47 would cause. Perhaps if you posted a saved game from when you were having the problem it may be easier to work out what has happened. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 03/12/2012 at 11:03 by postal Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 11:23 #38515 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
That certainly is an interesting one whereby 5M70/1M70 are 2 different lengths. The consist is a Cl.47+8 x Mk.1 coaches so that should be 19.38m(Cl.47)+8 x 19.55(Mk.1) which comes to 175.78m, rounded up train length should be 176m.
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| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 12:01 #38518 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:That certainly is an interesting one whereby 5M70/1M70 are 2 different lengths. The consist is a Cl.47+8 x Mk.1 coaches so that should be 19.38m(Cl.47)+8 x 19.55(Mk.1) which comes to 175.78m, rounded up train length should be 176m.Pascal The lengths I quoted came from your TT  Incidentally, I have just run the attached test TT which only contains the 5S50/5M70 workings. Everything works exactly as planned and the lengths computed as expected using P3. Using P4, the TT for 0M70 has to be edited to change the reversing location from CE291 to Shunt Neck or the TT has to be abandoned at SCE301, the loco manually reversed in the Shunt Neck and then the TT re-instated, but having done that, again everything worked as expected and the lengths computed correctly so I've got no idea about the problems Ajax103 has clearly had. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 12:18 #38519 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Yes I find it a bit amusing, but somehow the train length for this train seems to have got changed somehow. However due to the fact that we have never had any problems with 5S50/5M70/1M70 leads me to think the issue regarding train length has slipped UN-noticed due to the fact that the train has behaved properly all along & as a result we have never looked closely as to how or when the train length was altered. Still its not the end of the world. I'd rather have a discrepancy with the train length which is easy to reolve rather than a train not behaving as it should which could be a much more complicated issue to resolve.
Last edited: 03/12/2012 at 12:19 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 16:40 #38541 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:Yes I find it a bit amusing, but somehow the train length for this train seems to have got changed somehow. However due to the fact that we have never had any problems with 5S50/5M70/1M70 leads me to think the issue regarding train length has slipped UN-noticed due to the fact that the train has behaved properly all along & as a result we have never looked closely as to how or when the train length was altered.That's the whole point. The train length has not been changed although it may differ from what you think it should show. The TT is consistently carrying forward the lengths as originally entered and the core code is consistently making the correct calculations from the TT lengths so that each train is exactly the length expected from the previous train or trains. Other sources such as Wikipedia give the length of a Mk 1 as 19.35m, rather than the 19.55m of your documentation which would make the length of a rake of 8 as 154.8m so after allowing for rounding errors in converting decimals to whole metres, a couple of metres here or there is within the limits of the data available. What we need to do is try and find out where the bug has come in that has suddenly added 19m. to the length of 5M70 + 0M70 rather than worrying because the TT shows a Cl. 47 as 19m. and 8 x Mk 1 as 154m. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 17:00 #38542 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:Yes I find it a bit amusing, but somehow the train length for this train seems to have got changed somehow. However due to the fact that we have never had any problems with 5S50/5M70/1M70 leads me to think the issue regarding train length has slipped UN-noticed due to the fact that the train has behaved properly all along & as a result we have never looked closely as to how or when the train length was altered.That's the whole point. The train length has not been changed although it may differ from what you think it should show. The TT is consistently carrying forward the lengths as originally entered and the core code is consistently making the correct calculations from the TT lengths so that each train is exactly the length expected from the previous train or trains. Other sources such as Wikipedia give the length of a Mk 1 as 19.35m, rather than the 19.55m of your documentation which would make the length of a rake of 8 as 154.8m so after allowing for rounding errors in converting decimals to whole metres, a couple of metres here or there is within the limits of the data available. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 03/12/2012 at 18:05 #38546 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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" said:also allowing for the fact of course that track circuits are occupied by the wheelbase NOT the buffer to buffer length? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 04/12/2012 at 21:12 #38698 | |
gricehead
44 posts |
Just finished a full solo run through on this timetable. It's brilliant :D Would like to check a couple of things:
Also, it seems pretty much impossible to get any class 1 train through the sim without it losing time, even with a clear run. I appreciate the timetable is real-time from WTTs etc, so is this an issue in the sim re speeds/inclines/accel rates? Edit: Just seen the other thread on acceleration rates. Probably can ignore this Appreciate some of the above may have been raised already, so apologies in advance if I've duplicated something. Once again - thanks for an excellent timetable. Colin (now off to try to find something even more challenging) Last edited: 04/12/2012 at 21:20 by gricehead Reason: to add an update Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 04/12/2012 at 21:45 #38699 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:I'm left with a 5T09C in platform 8 with "No Engine" from about 16:00 onwards. Is this correct?Indeed it is correct. It is the 2 Carlisle - Euston sleeping cars which passengers can board from the late evening and which are hooked onto the back of 1M13 in the early hours. At the start of the sim there is nothing in P8, whereas in reality the Tuesday to Friday operations would already have the sleeping cars lying there from 16:00 the previous day. They can't be seeded as they are not there on the Sunday night/Monday morning because there is no 1M13 on a Sunday night. To get them into position on the remaining 4 days of the week, they enter from Wapping Sidings not long after midnight in an imaginary shunt move. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: gricehead |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 04/12/2012 at 21:50 #38700 | |
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gricehead
44 posts |
" said:" said:In which case, can the description be updated for the next release? It's currently "Carlisle Passenger Shunt Pilot (Class 08)", which is a little misleading.I'm left with a 5T09C in platform 8 with "No Engine" from about 16:00 onwards. Is this correct?Indeed it is correct. It is the 2 Carlisle - Euston sleeping cars which passengers can board from the late evening and which are hooked onto the back of 1M13 in the early hours. At the start of the sim there is nothing in P8, whereas in reality the Tuesday to Friday operations would already have the sleeping cars lying there from 16:00 the previous day. They can't be seeded as they are not there on the Sunday night/Monday morning because there is no 1M13 on a Sunday night. To get them into position on the remaining 4 days of the week, they enter from Wapping Sidings not long after midnight in an imaginary shunt move. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 04/12/2012 at 23:51 #38719 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:In which case, can the description be updated for the next release? It's currently "Carlisle Passenger Shunt Pilot (Class 08)", which is a little misleading.However, in defence of the TT writer, the second tab on the TT shows the formation as 2 x Mk 1 sleeper and no power option ticked. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 28/12/2012 at 14:50 #39767 | |
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GeorgeUK
29 posts |
I've encountered a problem... 1. GeorgeUK signals CSTP to Reverse CE335 to run around 5T09 2. CSTP fails to emerge 3. Train list describes CSTP as "stopped at Reverse CE355" regardless. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 28/12/2012 at 15:21 #39768 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Where is it failing to emerge from? Please could you describe the exact route? Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 28/12/2012 at 15:23 #39769 | |
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GeorgeUK
29 posts |
The route is from Carlisle SB (CE315) to CE431.
Last edited: 28/12/2012 at 15:27 by GeorgeUK Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 28/12/2012 at 15:46 #39770 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
It sounds like the timetable has somehow got out of sequence. If you try setting the trains location as Carlisle it should move out of the sidings
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| Carlisle 79-80TT 28/12/2012 at 21:08 #39777 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
" said:I've encountered a problem...Where is it meant to be stopped, 335 or 355 - assume it should be 335 as 355 is not on 1980s layout panel? Did you set the route all the way (315 to 334 then 334 to 431)? Which of the CSTP moves (CSTPA, CSTPB, CSTPC etc)? Which of 5T09 moves (as for CSTP)? Is there a red fill but no TD at signal 335 - if so that is CSTP? Can you post a saved game with the problem in place so that people can have a look and try and understand what is going on, please? We'll get to the bottom of things once there is enough information. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 79-80TT 04/07/2015 at 18:08 #73882 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
Hey, I'm playing through a Friday for the first time - right near the end (still can only manage 70%!)... 1S01 appears from Carnforth at the very start as it should (it's 1920 TThO from Olympia) - however, it also appears at 2400 or so - if it's TThO it wouldn't be there for Saturday morning would it? Friday does add a little bit of extra work with the reliefs. Very enjoyable. Pascal, will you be adding moves for places like Dentonholme Yard and other locations where nothing currently happens? Or were they not in use then? Log in to reply |
