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| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 16:27 #60137 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I've started this thread to split it from this one (Which got well away from the original discussion). My thoughts on the main points raised so far: Include a text file with every timetable with information such as the timetable version, the date of release, how to install it, how to do things that the stock timetable doesn't do. Remember that the new XML format includes space to include a timetable version number in the format Major.Minor.Build within the timetable. It is eventually hoped that auto updates of timetables can occur along the same lines as how loader sim updates are done. The date of release is neither here nor there, I'm sure everyone could work with just a version number. How to install additional timetables should be on the Wiki in one central place, I'd hate to try and keep on top of two hundred separate files if the system where ever to change. Sim manuals should cover how to do anything unusual outside the normal scope of a sim. Two sidings even in separate sims are usually pretty similar, say for example Penmaenmawr Ballast Quarry, with Exeter Riverside Yard, almost exactly the same I wouldn't even think them worthy of attention in the sim manual. A complex example like getting a train out of Shotton Paper would be something worthy of note in the sim manual, but not in the timetable description. I do agree that moves which perhaps need intervention like the Lickey banker on Gloucester should have some notes in the timetable. Including a text file also adds complexity to getting to the information, rather than just pressing F4 and going to the description tab. I don't think creating a Wiki page for every timetable is the way to go about things, and I certainly wouldn't wish to see mass changes to how the Wiki currently handles timetables without fully discussing it between everyone. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 06/05/2014 at 16:29 by headshot119 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Aurora |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 16:44 #60140 | |
JamesN
1611 posts |
Some excellent points Karl, thanks. I've attached the Victoria Central TT Notes for the WIP version 4.4 of the WTT. This should give an idea of what I think Max is asking for and at least in my Humble Opinion the sort of documentation that is being talked about. It is included with the zip file the TT comes in, and by default it would be extracted to SimSig\Timetables\VictoriaC Vic is a relatively simple example, as there isn't really any user-input required on the timetable side, just get on and run the simulation. I'm really not keen on the idea of the Wiki being used for timetables or even dare I say walkthroughs. The Wiki, and more particularly simulation manuals, should be a quick reference as how the simulation basically operates - think of it as an Orientation and Special Instructions Page - basic idea of how the sim operates and anything out of course not covered by general instructions. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: BarryM, DriverCurran |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 17:23 #60142 | |
Steamer
3997 posts |
" said:How to install additional timetables should be on the Wiki in one central place, I'd hate to try and keep on top of two hundred separate files if the system where ever to change.Just to add that the page can be found here. It contains instructions on how to install to default locations, with links to the main SimSig Loader page added where appropriate to cover custom installs. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 06/05/2014 at 17:24 by Steamer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: headshot119, AndyG |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 18:15 #60146 | |
Peter Bennet
5419 posts |
Contextual rephrasing of the point I made in the other thread. Problem with policing user timetable uploads is that all I can easily check are the basics of how the upload is titled and whether there is a "description" but the actual contents can only be checked once it's "authorised". I'm not going to faff around with authorising and then dissecting the contents only to decide it's not properly packaged because a .txt file is missing; then deleting it and maybe or maybe not then contacting the author. TT uploads are done without any warranty from SimSig as to fitness of purpose; we can delete if there are complaints but that's it. I think there is merit in having a Wiki page per sim covering at least the supplied timetable, and in some Sims (mine I know) there is generally a list of available timetables. How expansive the notes should be and what they cover is a bit subjective. Edinburgh, for example, covers the tricky matter of the Highland Sleeper logistics. Apart from that I can't see anything else worth commenting on, but if others disagree then they can add whatever: that's the beauty of the Wiki. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 18:30 #60147 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Quote:Include a text file with every timetable with information such as the timetable version, the date of release, how to install it, how to do things that the stock timetable doesn't do.That's what the Description element is for, ain't it? I'm not against providing notes, but eg. what JamesN posted could happily go there. Quote: It is eventually hoped that auto updates of timetables can occur along the same lines as how loader sim updates are done.Please don't, I strongly oppose to overwriting timetables by some autoupdate, even more so when having a different timetable can't possibly hinder anyone's enjoyment. Moreover, when different timetable versions differ in details, I'd like to try them both or replay the same version when the new version gets released. Quote: I'm sure everyone could work with just a version number.Some people actually can't, and use eg. git sha1 hashes. Which leads me to suggesting that github could be a viable way of maintaining TTs, as we have text based TT formats. Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 18:51 #60148 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:" said:Indeed, as MaxAnd stated elsewhere, ideally you don't want multiple copies of one set of instructions.How to install additional timetables should be on the Wiki in one central place, I'd hate to try and keep on top of two hundred separate files if the system where ever to change.Just to add that the page can be found here. It contains instructions on how to install to default locations, with links to the main SimSig Loader page added where appropriate to cover custom installs. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 19:28 #60150 | |
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Steamer
3997 posts |
" said:Please don't, I strongly oppose to overwriting timetables by some autoupdate, even more so when having a different timetable can't possibly hinder anyone's enjoyment. Moreover, when different timetable versions differ in details, I'd like to try them both or replay the same version when the new version gets released.When you check for updates, the updater gives you a list of files that will be changed. If you want to save the originals, you can untick the box. Out of interest, if/when the updater handles TTs, would re-naming the original file prevent auto-updating? For example, if I downloaded "Royston Generic" and a later version became available, would re-naming the TT "Royston Generic Old" prevent the auto-updater detecting it? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 19:44 #60155 | |
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Peter Bennet
5419 posts |
How would it know what it was updating if the name was different? It works for Sims because the Sim name is a constant which a developer can't change. The updater tests for the name and then the version number, if the number is higher than that found on your computer it says there is an update. If the number is equal lower then it assumes you have the more up-to-date even if you do not in reality e.g. because the Developer has miss-numbered in same way. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 06/05/2014 at 20:16 #60162 | |
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Jan
907 posts 
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Instead of the filename, the updater could check for the internal timetable name. Or if you didn't want fixing typos in the timetable name to break the update, I suppose a specially created property - some sort of GUID or whatever - could be used to uniquely identify each timetable. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 07/05/2014 at 11:21 #60182 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I see we all have our preferences. What is important is what we don't want to experience, such as wondering where to find specific notes relevant to the TT we are playing, wondering why this or that specific situation isn't covered in the notes, wondering if the notes have been updated to reflect a later TT version, etc. The preferences expressed by TT writers who have contributed here all manage to get around these problems. JamesN's file is an excellent model to follow.
Last edited: 07/05/2014 at 11:23 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Discussion on Timetable notes - Version Control etc 07/05/2014 at 13:23 #60183 | |
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dwelham313
139 posts |
I always preferred the notes in the F4 General Description field, however when I uploaded my Kings Cross 4 day TT I found that the final notes I'd compiled had been replaced by the notes I'd written months previously (for the .exe version!). These notes had been changed and edited many times during the 200 or so hours of testing (its a 98h hour TT!) which rendered the uploaded notes totally defunct! I seem to recall recently that someone else had a similar problem, possibly the Exeter summer 80/85 TTs. Future TTs written by me will now include a .txt file I think, and I think JamesN's template is an excellent one to follow. Log in to reply |