Signalling Grades

" said:

The dispatcher is the person lower level workers have to consult before they deviate from normal procedures. As technology progressed dispatchers were simply empowered to do all the work they were overseeing, themselves. When technical safety systems break down or don't exist for a specific situation, they are the ones that provide instructions.

I have to admit, I'm a bit puzzled by this. Surely "what to do if things break down" is all covered by the rules?

Quote:

What always puzzles me is that since odd situations can happen anywhere on a rail network, who is the person that lower grade signalmen would go to if say normal signaling rules had to be suspended? Who determines which trains to delay and by how much? Etc etc.

Why would you suspend the rules? Surely that's a recipe for disaster! Even if you have to delay one train to give priority to another, why would you want to go against the rulebook to do so?

Certainly - in the UK at least - ignoring the rules because trains are running late is a recipe for being fired and potentially prison.

Edit: I suspect the only cases where signalmen have been sent to prison are ones where their bending or breaking the rules has led to death(s), but I can't be completely sure on that one.

I have to admit, I'm a bit puzzled by this. Surely "what to do if things break down" is all covered by the rules?

What always puzzles me is that since odd situations can happen anywhere on a rail network, who is the person that lower grade signalmen would go to if say normal signaling rules had to be suspended? Who determines which trains to delay and by how much? Etc etc.

Why would you suspend the rules? Surely that's a recipe for disaster! Even if you have to delay one train to give priority to another, why would you want to go against the rulebook to do so?

Failures and non-emergency obstructions were less angsty but no less provided for. So there are well-developed procedures for running traffic during a failure of block instruments or of track circuits or of any other signalling equipment (and in mechanically signalled areas that includes the possibility of overriding a failed track circuit to allow points to be worked). And there is Section M of the Rule Book: 'Working the traffic of a double line over a single line of rails during accident or obstruction' to give it the full title! No need for suspending any rules, let alone ignoring them.

Traffic arrangements are another matter; that's where box supervisors or Control have to take the lead, but in those cases signalmen simply apply the standard operating rules to send trains a different way to usual.

Dispatchers can also take interlockings out of service, although I think the points have to be secured first.

I know that things are blurred these days since many Signalers work in large signaling centers, but it seems strange that a local signaler in a traditional signalbox would be relied upon to make all manner of decisions without the consultation of a central authority.

Let's say signal power failed or a train breaks down and you have to run another train against the flow of traffic. Back in the day individual block operators were not in a position to make those decisions on their own so they would escalate up the chain of command. Most operators were/are puppets of the dispatcher. That's why they were all replaced with technology. :lol:

As Ron_J says, your ways are not our ways...

The answer to those questions (and almost every other question you've ever asked on this forum) is:

"American railroad practice ≠ UK railway practice"

Or put more simply, we do things differently here.

But all the 'decisions' are those specifically authorised by the rules.

Overriding track circuit failures to work points: only happens in manual boxes (and then, I suspect, only for manual points). Manual points are well within the view of the signalman so there is little risk provided he looks out of the window - it is a requirement of the regulations permitting the use of sealed releases that the signalman satisfies himself it is safe to do so. I suspect it goes back to the days when track circuits were an aid to signalmen, not a fundamental part of the signalling system. (It used to be common to have a single track circuit with signals within its length, ergo the signals were not track locked and signalmen had to observe movement of trains.) The regulations state very firmly that sealed releases are not to be used for traffic purposes - in other words, if you gridlocked yourself with your own stupidity then tough!

" said:

The answer to those questions (and almost every other question you've ever asked on this forum) is:

"American railroad practice ≠ UK railway practice"

Or put more simply, we do things differently here.

Yes you do, but I am trying to figure out how you have avoided a hierarchical system when it comes to signaling management. In most organizations around the world higher rank/grade means greater responsibility and discretion. When you try to return an item to the store without a receipt the clerk might have to get their manager because that is a check on fraud. It goes to reason there would be situations where certain ranks of persons would need to be consulted before a decision was made.

Anyway, if I read things right, back in the day there were controllers who would handle larger scale routing decisions, but today with large boxes and signaling centres those decisions are generally worked out in house.

Even if not specified in the Rules a Signalman will often ask his colleagues, if there any in the box, for advice - for example should we run reversible here or talk the trains past, or whatever.

" said:

Even if not specified in the Rules a Signalman will often ask his colleagues, if there any in the box, for advice - for example should we run reversible here or talk the trains past, or whatever.

Signalling by committee - a tried and true method to solve any problem! Well, that, or to get half a dozen conflicting suggestions.

Indeed. And you know the chips are really down when someone gets the Rule Book out.

" said:

Indeed. And you know the chips are really down when someone gets the Rule Book out.

Which usually involves the discovery of several obscure clauses that no one remembers ever seeing before...

At the end of the day I was told I had passed to grade 8 and was offered Kings Cross or West Hampstead.

At the end of the day I was told I had passed to grade 8 and was offered Kings Cross or West Hampstead.

I've seen the short BBC video inside Kings Cross box, in addition to the sim, it looks like an incredible place to work. Have also seen some photos of West Hampstead box too. What drove your decision to pick West Hampstead (if the reasons aren't too personal)?

Rochester - Grade 5

Ashford IECC also has a Grade 3 panel, which works the Marshlink line (fringing with Rye). The service is sparse so the bobby on duty has to do some of the other workstations' paperwork!

Rochester is a 6.

Guildford is a 7.

Cuxton is a 2.

East Kent (Gillingham) ROC has been temporarily downgraded from 7 to 6 (with some bobbies retaining a personal 7).

Woking also has a relatively new, lower-graded panel covering the Alton line (Grade 4, IIRC).

Think Tonbridge and Robertsbridge are slightly lower than listed - will make some enquiries...

Signalling Technicians, that have had the specific training and competence assessments, can override track circuits in failure scenarios, to either allow route locking that is "tying up" a junction, or normalise a set of points.