Warrington PSB FAQ

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Warrington PSB FAQ 22/12/2020 at 00:34 #135044
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Warrington PSB Frequently Asked Questions

Do you think you've found a bug? Or do you have a problem running the simulation, check through this thread first.

Remember timetables are dealt with in the relevant timetable thread.

Please read the following information:-

- When setting a "route" from WN32 slot the overlap track does not illuminate with route lights, this is a deliberate part of the simulation design.

- Bi-Di working on the Chat Moss line from Eccles towards Manchester is not implemented.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 23/12/2020 at 00:32 by headshot119
Reason: Added note about Bi-Di working on the chat moss
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 13:58 #135142
Dionysusnu
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580 posts 		It seems that I am not getting the "headcode passed location on time" messages for run round locos at arpley junction. Is this intended?
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 14:20 #135145
postal
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5269 posts 		Dionysusnu in post 135142 said:
It seems that I am not getting the "headcode passed location on time" messages for run round locos at arpley junction. Is this intended?
Another thing to remember in regard to Arpley is the working of Latchford/MSC RR loops. Although they are interchangeable in terms of working, F2 reports as per TT'd move and not actual location (i.e. if you put a RR TT'd for Latchford into MSC, F2 will report the loco in the Latchford Headshunt and then re-entering from the Latchford RR line and vice versa). As most of the RR operation is not track-circuited it would be easy to forget where a train and RR loco are actually located and inadvertently try and put a second train into the same loop. Probably best to use some form of reminder (perhaps a sticky note or collar) while there is a train inside one of the loops.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 14:57 #135148
Meld
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Online 		As John said above the sidings are interchangeable.

Runrounds are untimed with dwells overwriting default dwell times, therefore there are no times to report.

The Scratchpad there is your friend - I set it up as below, after uncoupling and the runround commences you can I delete the left one when the loco is at the Junction and the right one after the join is completed
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Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 15:12 #135149
danners430
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135 posts 		I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 15:34 #135150
whatlep
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377 posts 		danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
They are both fragrant jewels of Lancashire, though since 1974 Warrington has been in exile in Cheshire. Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML (see attached photo from 1978). Warrington is best thought of as a quiet fishing village on the Mersey (to plagiarise Billy Connolly).
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 15:37 #135151
Meld
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Online 		danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
Just uploaded
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 15:45 #135152
danners430
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135 posts 		Meld in post 135151 said:
danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
Just uploaded
One minor thing - is the colour coding for the developer correct on Wigan? It's marked as being a Headshot sim on the diagram, but credited to Pedro on the purchasing page
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 16:37 #135155
Meld
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Online 		Chaining diagram corrected, and uploaded
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 17:32 #135157
swiftaw
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271 posts 		whatlep in post 135150 said:
danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
They are both fragrant jewels of Lancashire, though since 1974 Warrington has been in exile in Cheshire. Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML (see attached photo from 1978). Warrington is best thought of as a quiet fishing village on the Mersey (to plagiarise Billy Connolly).

Also, both are known as secondary Rugby League towns, behind the mighty St Helens
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 17:55 #135158
northroad
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872 posts 		Also, both are known as secondary Rugby League towns, behind the mighty St Helens :)[/quote]

A few on’t other side of Pennines would argue about that.
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 17:57 #135160
postal
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5269 posts 		whatlep in post 135150 said:
Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML . . .
Don't know what it's like now but when I was travelling regularly about 25 years ago you could also look out of the right hand window as you headed North to see the home of Uncle Joe's Mint Balls. I hope they were some kind of confectionery.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 18:22 #135163
Dionysusnu
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580 posts 		Meld in post 135148 said:

Runrounds are untimed, therefore there are no times to report.
Aha, that's the bit I missed myself. Thanks
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 18:39 #135165
Steamer
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3997 posts 		postal in post 135160 said:
whatlep in post 135150 said:
Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML . . .
Don't know what it's like now but when I was travelling regularly about 25 years ago you could also look out of the right hand window as you headed North to see the home of Uncle Joe's Mint Balls. I hope they were some kind of confectionery.
The certainly keep you all aglow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aoyF0enNU
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 19:05 #135167
AlexH
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163 posts 		Regulation question: I note in the manual that trains with OL are to be routed via the Old Lines at Arpley. There are many trains in the 2015 timetable with OL even when they are non-stop pass-through trains. This would seem to incur quite an effort penalty, not to mention a conflicting move in the down direction.

Is there a logic to this in real life? A bridge with a limit? Is there discretion to keep them moving on the fast lines if possible?
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 19:17 #135169
swiftaw
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271 posts 		northroad in post 135158 said:
Also, both are known as secondary Rugby League towns, behind the mighty St Helens :)
A few on’t other side of Pennines would argue about that.[/quote]

They could argue, but they'd be wrong.
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 19:25 #135170
Steamer
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3997 posts 		AlexH in post 135167 said:
Regulation question: I note in the manual that trains with OL are to be routed via the Old Lines at Arpley. There are many trains in the 2015 timetable with OL even when they are non-stop pass-through trains. This would seem to incur quite an effort penalty, not to mention a conflicting move in the down direction.

Is there a logic to this in real life? A bridge with a limit? Is there discretion to keep them moving on the fast lines if possible?
The Helsby lines are distinct from the main lines for route knowledge purposes. It's perhaps less critical for freight traffic, or even for most ATW services, but any VT ECS workings should run via them if booked to do so to maintain driver route knowledge. That said, if doing so would cause additional delay or the train is already running very late, you can run them main line.

Note that some ATW services are booked via Walton Old Jn to avoid conflicts with main line trains; take care before running these on the mains.

More generally, most four-track sections of railway are timed as two-track routes (using the slowest lines) overnight to allow engineering possessions to be taken.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 19:39 #135171
Splodge
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721 posts 		What does the 'SJ' indication mean next to some shunt signals/points?
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 19:45 #135173
Steamer
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3997 posts 		Slotted Joint.

They're catch points which are normally in the 'derail' position, with a spring mechanism which re-opens them when a train passes in the trailing direction. However, they can be driven closed (i.e. non-derail) for movements in the facing direction.

So the points next to WN48 at Wigan will normally be in the derail position, however if a route is set from WN48 they'll be driven closed by a point motor.

I suspect the way they behave in the sim is a compromise between reality and SimSig's limitations.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 23/12/2020 at 19:46 by Steamer
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 20:29 #135177
clive
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2799 posts 		whatlep in post 135150 said:
danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
They are both fragrant jewels of Lancashire, though since 1974 Warrington has been in exile in Cheshire. Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML (see attached photo from 1978). Warrington is best thought of as a quiet fishing village on the Mersey (to plagiarise Billy Connolly).
Wasn't Warrington where the Wodka came from?
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 21:30 #135183
AlexH
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163 posts 		Steamer in post 135170 said:
AlexH in post 135167 said:
Regulation question: I note in the manual that trains with OL are to be routed via the Old Lines at Arpley. There are many trains in the 2015 timetable with OL even when they are non-stop pass-through trains. This would seem to incur quite an effort penalty, not to mention a conflicting move in the down direction.

Is there a logic to this in real life? A bridge with a limit? Is there discretion to keep them moving on the fast lines if possible?
The Helsby lines are distinct from the main lines for route knowledge purposes. It's perhaps less critical for freight traffic, or even for most ATW services, but any VT ECS workings should run via them if booked to do so to maintain driver route knowledge. That said, if doing so would cause additional delay or the train is already running very late, you can run them main line.

Note that some ATW services are booked via Walton Old Jn to avoid conflicts with main line trains; take care before running these on the mains.

More generally, most four-track sections of railway are timed as two-track routes (using the slowest lines) overnight to allow engineering possessions to be taken.
Many thanks. Utterly irrelevant sub-question: how far apart do lines have to be to be considered distinct for route knowledge purposes?
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Warrington PSB FAQ 23/12/2020 at 21:49 #135186
Splodge
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721 posts 		I don't think there is any sort of standard - I suspect down to TOCs as to whether they want to ensure extra time for route learning, and subsequent refreshes and rostering headaches this can cause.

For example, not all Northern drivers operating through the station sign the main platforms (1-12) at Piccadilly despite signing most of the approach lines out of necessity to access 13 and 14. And few (if any) passenger TOC drivers will sign the independent lines from Sandbach to Crewe despite them being part of a four-track railway and to an outsider, one and the same.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
Last edited: 23/12/2020 at 21:51 by Splodge
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Warrington PSB FAQ 24/12/2020 at 01:42 #135192
bill_gensheet
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Online 		Steamer in post 135170 said:

Note that some ATW services are booked via Walton Old Jn to avoid conflicts with main line trains; take care before running these on the mains.
From BLS / Gensheet / PSUL discussions, one of the least reliable bits of track to timetable. Historically a lot less trains than now and the chances of a WCML being on time were nil, so any booked 'Old to avoid conflict' would inevitably go main line.

At least Warrington to Chester you could wait for the signal to show the 'old' route, the other way was a pure lottery and was much less used anyway.

Bill
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Warrington PSB FAQ 24/12/2020 at 12:58 #135204
belly buster
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368 posts 		whatlep in post 135150 said:
danners430 in post 135149 said:
I take it Warrington and Wigan are both being added to the chaining diagram in good time? Being a Scottish tw*t, I've no idea where they both are geographically, other than somewhere on or near the WCML :D
They are both fragrant jewels of Lancashire, though since 1974 Warrington has been in exile in Cheshire. Think of Wigan as the source of Poole's Pies and an excellent pub right next to the WCML (see attached photo from 1978). Warrington is best thought of as a quiet fishing village on the Mersey (to plagiarise Billy Connolly).

And Wigan has been exiled to Greater Manchester. As a Yorkshireman, I have no complaints about Lancashire been chopped up!
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Warrington PSB FAQ 24/12/2020 at 14:23 #135209
Albert
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1315 posts 		It also ate part of Yorkshire at the same time though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire#Modern_history
AJP in games
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