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Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 03:12 #135773 | |
whatlep
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In the "heritage mode" I've noticed that the trailing crossover at Garswood (between WN92 and the station) has been omitted. Protecting position light signals WN91 on the up and WN89 on the down. Movements were inbound to WN93, reverse via WN91 toward WN86. In the unusual event a train needed to reverse the other way: into Garswood down platform, reverse via WN 89 to WN93. For many years this was a notable part of Warrington's workload, since half of all off-peak passenger trains from Liverpool terminated at Garswood, it being the end of Merseyside PTE's area. Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 04:00 #135775 | |
swiftaw
![]() 268 posts |
Just curious (since Garswood was my local station growing up), what years were there services that terminated there?
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Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 12:20 #135793 | |
whatlep
![]() 377 posts |
swiftaw in post 135775 said:Just curious (since Garswood was my local station growing up), what years were there services that terminated there?Well here's a curious thing. My folk memory was that it occurred from creation of the metro county in 1974 onwards. Delving into my timetable collection this morning I see that services were extended to Garswood in 1977, but didn't last long at all, being gone by 1980. Before and after the extension the extra services terminated st St Helens as you'll recall. So scratch "many" in the OP and insert "a few". First lesson for 2021: never trust your memory from 40+ years ago! All of that said, the crossover did exist on the ground and Warrington is such a complete simultaion otherwise that it would be a shame not to include it.... Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 14:11 #135799 | |
pedroathome
![]() 906 posts |
Logged as Mantis 32670 to look at. This is something that I will need to work out, as the crossover isn't on any plans which I have. Garswood [011_07] by Mersey_Rails_Plus, on Flickr I will need to do some digging on this. The image I've linked to says its looking east, to be clear, that would be facing the Warrington PSB area, not Liverpool? James Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 06:17 by GeoffM Reason: Image removed Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 14:28 #135801 | |
swiftaw
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pedroathome in post 135799 said:Logged as Mantis 32670 to look at. This is something that I will need to work out, as the crossover isn't on any plans which I have.Yes, I can confirmed that that photo is facing towards Wigan. The photographer is standing on the platform for St Helens bound trains. Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 06:18 by GeoffM Reason: Image removed Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 14:29 #135802 | |
swiftaw
![]() 268 posts |
whatlep in post 135793 said:swiftaw in post 135775 said:Okay, that explains it, my memories are only from the mid-80s. I wonder when the crossover was removed?Just curious (since Garswood was my local station growing up), what years were there services that terminated there?Well here's a curious thing. My folk memory was that it occurred from creation of the metro county in 1974 onwards. Delving into my timetable collection this morning I see that services were extended to Garswood in 1977, but didn't last long at all, being gone by 1980. Before and after the extension the extra services terminated st St Helens as you'll recall. So scratch "many" in the OP and insert "a few". First lesson for 2021: never trust your memory from 40+ years ago! Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 14:49 #135803 | |
jc92
![]() 3649 posts |
try the SRS archives. they have a signalling notice for Warrington PSB dated 1972 which might shed some light.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 15:12 #135805 | |
pedroathome
![]() 906 posts |
Unfortunately, the "1973" plan, while dated 1973, has been modified upto an unknown date. I've noticed the same through out these early plans from the SRS site. I will say though, collectively, these plans did help catch a number of small things that I would have otherwise missed. James Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 15:30 #135808 | |
TUT
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pedroathome in post 135805 said:Unfortunately, the "1973" plan, while dated 1973, has been modified upto an unknown date. I've noticed the same through out these early plans from the SRS site.I regret that I don't quite understand what you are referring to,this plan, from this page shows the crossover and controlling shunt signals quite clearly? Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 15:34 #135809 | |
pedroathome
![]() 906 posts |
TUT in post 135808 said:pedroathome in post 135805 said:OK, I was looking at a completely different page on their siteUnfortunately, the "1973" plan, while dated 1973, has been modified upto an unknown date. I've noticed the same through out these early plans from the SRS site.I regret that I don't quite understand what you are referring to,this plan, from this page shows the crossover and controlling shunt signals quite clearly? Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 16:09 #135812 | |
whatlep
![]() 377 posts |
jc92 in post 135803 said:try the SRS archives. they have a signalling notice for Warrington PSB dated 1972 which might shed some light.Sheet 6 in that download is the one you need. I have it, but since it's a restricted material, I didn't feel it would be appropriate to publish it on this Forum. Last edited: 01/01/2021 at 16:10 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 17:06 #135821 | |
Steamer
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whatlep in post 135812 said:jc92 in post 135803 said:That appears to have changed- it was available to all a few years ago when I downloaded a copy. That said, I think the screenshot further up has just sold me on an SRS membership...try the SRS archives. they have a signalling notice for Warrington PSB dated 1972 which might shed some light.Sheet 6 in that download is the one you need. I have it, but since it's a restricted material, I didn't feel it would be appropriate to publish it on this Forum. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 01/01/2021 at 17:53 #135828 | |
AlexRail575
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The below image (from the same source) is directly over the crossover ("The tracks looking towards Wigan from Garswood station."). The signal identifications given by whatlep appear to be correct (thereby alleviating any doubt, if such existed, that this might have been a ground frame): [Link to image] Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 01:31 by AlexRail575 Reason: fixed non functioning image Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:06 #135849 | |
whatlep
![]() 377 posts |
Steamer in post 135821 said:whatlep in post 135812 said:I definitely recommend SRS membership. After a little fiddling, here's a small extract from the relevant sheet of the 1972 signalling notice showing the Garswood area. The arrangements are pretty straightforward, apart from position light WN87, the purpose of which is a bit of a mystery to me. Anyone know why that was there?jc92 in post 135803 said:That appears to have changed- it was available to all a few years ago when I downloaded a copy. That said, I think the screenshot further up has just sold me on an SRS membership...try the SRS archives. they have a signalling notice for Warrington PSB dated 1972 which might shed some light.Sheet 6 in that download is the one you need. I have it, but since it's a restricted material, I didn't feel it would be appropriate to publish it on this Forum. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 00:08 by whatlep Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:08 #135850 | |
headshot119
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EDIT Withdrawn, I hadn't looked at the diagram properly. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 00:09 by headshot119 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:16 #135851 | |
whatlep
![]() 377 posts |
headshot119 in post 135850 said:EDITWhich is a shame as you may have hit the nail on the head with the comment about banking engines! The 1973 Sectional Appendix references assistance in rear between Ince Moss Jn and "Garswood station". Assistance to be provided until "travelling over the level approaching Garswood station, signal WN92". I guess it's not too much of a leap to conjecture that assisting engines might not be able to stop until past WN R86 (as numbered on the plan) and probably across a track circuit boundary. So WN87 for a way of backtracking through a track circuit to get to WN89 possibly? Professional signalling engineers, feel free to shoot me down.... Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:21 #135852 | |
jc92
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headshot119 in post 135850 said:EDIT1960 SA (Can't find my 1972 one) shows Banking as authorised between Ince Moss and Garswood - I suspect the signal allows the banker to assist beyond the station and then use it to proceed wrong road back to the crossover. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:23 #135853 | |
headshot119
![]() 4869 posts |
whatlep in post 135851 said:headshot119 in post 135850 said:Perhaps I was on the mark then, it would make sense in some regards. The only other reason I could think for it if there was a siding somewhere between Garswood platform an WN87 signal at some point?EDITWhich is a shame as you may have hit the nail on the head with the comment about banking engines! The 1973 Sectional Appendix references assistance in rear between Ince Moss Jn and "Garswood station". Assistance to be provided until "travelling over the level approaching Garswood station, signal WN92". "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
Garswood - missing Xover 02/01/2021 at 00:40 #135854 | |
whatlep
![]() 377 posts |
headshot119 in post 135853 said:whatlep in post 135851 said:Not that I can see from pre-PSB signalbox diagrams. The line through Garswood was four track in steam days, with all the sidings and connnections at the Wigan end of the station. Assisting engines make more sense.headshot119 in post 135850 said:Perhaps I was on the mark then, it would make sense in some regards. The only other reason I could think for it if there was a siding somewhere between Garswood platform an WN87 signal at some point?EDITWhich is a shame as you may have hit the nail on the head with the comment about banking engines! The 1973 Sectional Appendix references assistance in rear between Ince Moss Jn and "Garswood station". Assistance to be provided until "travelling over the level approaching Garswood station, signal WN92". Log in to reply |