New sim - Peak District!

Danny252 in post 104043 said:

KymriskaDraken in post 104040 said:

Phil-jmw in post 104032 said:

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

I reported this during testing but the developer said it was correct. Raised on mantis again by another user (18850).

Kev

The very first photo Google pulls up shows 20/19/17 reversed with 16 normal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/16773482163

Surely you shouldn't get the distant until the section signal is cleared?!

The very first photo Google pulls up shows 20/19/17 reversed with 16 normal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/16773482163

Ar88 in post 104044 said:

Danny252 in post 104043 said:

KymriskaDraken in post 104040 said:

Phil-jmw in post 104032 said:

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

I reported this during testing but the developer said it was correct. Raised on mantis again by another user (18850).

Kev

The very first photo Google pulls up shows 20/19/17 reversed with 16 normal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/16773482163

Surely you shouldn't get the distant until the section signal is cleared?!

Not if the section signal is an Intermediate Block signal that, by definition, has its own repeater- which is the case here.

KymriskaDraken in post 104007 said:

Sidestick Priority in post 103987 said:

What a great sim, thanks to everyone involved in making it!

A small observation if I may, the UP/DN labeling on the block instruments between New Mills South and New Mills seems to be the wrong way around?

Also, I can't for the life of me cancel the Train on Line indication and return the block instruments to normal after conducting reversing moves from shunt signal PF28 into Peakstone CEMEX. I have cleared the PF 21 signal to get the train in behind the shunt signal in preparation for the reversing move, and given ToL as it enters the DN section between Peak Forest and Great Rocks. The train then does its thing and heads off into the siding. When I try to return the block to normal as per the manual I never seem to get the Block Override Release Given message so the instrument stays locked and cannot be released. Any suggestions?

Many thanks,
SP

You don't need to give TOL. Get a Line Clear if you need to clear PF21, and when the train has reversed cancel the route from PF21 and when it times out you can cancel the Line Clear with the Cancel button on the block instrument. Once the block is at TOL you can't cancel it until a train has passed through the section.

Kev

Kev,

With route cancelled from PF21 signal, and no 'Block Override Release' message received, LC won't cancel. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

KymriskaDraken in post 104007 said:

Sidestick Priority in post 103987 said:

What a great sim, thanks to everyone involved in making it!

A small observation if I may, the UP/DN labeling on the block instruments between New Mills South and New Mills seems to be the wrong way around?

Also, I can't for the life of me cancel the Train on Line indication and return the block instruments to normal after conducting reversing moves from shunt signal PF28 into Peakstone CEMEX. I have cleared the PF 21 signal to get the train in behind the shunt signal in preparation for the reversing move, and given ToL as it enters the DN section between Peak Forest and Great Rocks. The train then does its thing and heads off into the siding. When I try to return the block to normal as per the manual I never seem to get the Block Override Release Given message so the instrument stays locked and cannot be released. Any suggestions?

Many thanks,
SP

You don't need to give TOL. Get a Line Clear if you need to clear PF21, and when the train has reversed cancel the route from PF21 and when it times out you can cancel the Line Clear with the Cancel button on the block instrument. Once the block is at TOL you can't cancel it until a train has passed through the section.

Kev

That isn't prototypical though.

If Shunt into Forward Section is authorised and there isn't a Subsidiary Arm (which there isn't in this case) then the Peak Forest Signaller should send Train Entering Section if the Section Signal has been cleared and the shunt move is going to enter the section. Once the move is completed then the Shunt Withdrawn bell signal would be sent.

In the event Shunt into Forward Section isn't authorised then the train would be offered, train entering section sent as per previous paragraph, and then cancelled when the shunt move has been withdrawn.

While I appreciate Absolute Block in SimSig is an element of compromise the Absolute Block link provided in the Peak Forest manual does state that it should be possible to initiate the cancel procedure if the Block has gone to Train on Line provided the route from the respective Section Signal has been cancelled.

WesternChampion in post 104019 said:

I don't seem to be able to get a route from New Mills South Sig 24 onto the Down Romiley, either to New Mills Sig 3 or the Triangle. If this is not a valid route, is there any other way for 5S05 in the 2009 timetable to reverse at New Mills South Junction, without having to "Pass Signal at Danger"?

NB I am playing in TCB mode at the moment.

Chris

Mantis 18843.

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

...and following Phil's comment, the symbol for EE16 is therefore wrong, as it is a colour light.

Phil-jmw in post 104032 said:

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

I reported this during testing but the developer said it was correct. Raised on mantis again by another user (18850).

Kev

Excellent simulation, I look forward to purchasing!

One issue- what's the logic behind the layout drawing at Hazel Grove? In reality, the Northenden line passes over the Buxton lines in the vicinity of HG23/HG24. It doesn't pass over the Hazel Grove- High Level Jn single line.

Steamer in post 104046 said:

Ar88 in post 104044 said:

Danny252 in post 104043 said:

KymriskaDraken in post 104040 said:

Phil-jmw in post 104032 said:

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

I reported this during testing but the developer said it was correct. Raised on mantis again by another user (18850).

Kev

The very first photo Google pulls up shows 20/19/17 reversed with 16 normal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/16773482163

Surely you shouldn't get the distant until the section signal is cleared?!

Not if the section signal is an Intermediate Block signal that, by definition, has its own repeater- which is the case here.

Thank you for clearing that one up - haven't come across this in the real-world yet!

Ar88 in post 104053 said:

Steamer in post 104046 said:

Ar88 in post 104044 said:

Danny252 in post 104043 said:

KymriskaDraken in post 104040 said:

Phil-jmw in post 104032 said:

When clearing the Up line signals at Edale EE19 Up Home and EE17 Up Section signal remain at Danger after routes have been set until EE16 is cleared, but EE16 is an IB Home signal, so it should be possible to clear EE19 and EE17 with EE16 still at Danger otherwise the IB section is of no use.

I reported this during testing but the developer said it was correct. Raised on mantis again by another user (18850).

Kev

The very first photo Google pulls up shows 20/19/17 reversed with 16 normal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/16773482163

Surely you shouldn't get the distant until the section signal is cleared?!

Not if the section signal is an Intermediate Block signal that, by definition, has its own repeater- which is the case here.

Thank you for clearing that one up - haven't come across this in the real-world yet!

An IB would often be a replacement for a signalbox. Before the days of track circuits & power operation, signalboxes would sometimes be provided simply to break up a block section, just a home & distant in each direction. Later, boxes that originally had sidings etc might be reduced to that sort of status (especially following Beeching). Eventually the cost of staffing such a box would exceed the cost of installing & maintaining the necessary track circuits, so the 'break section' box would be replaced by an Intermediate Block Home (and its distant) on each line. Normal configuration was for the IBH and IBD to be worked by one lever (usual colour was red over yellow, with the colours separated by a white band) at the box in rear. The reason for working it from the rear box was that track circuits only needed to extend to a point 400 yards beyond the IB, rather than all through the section.

The length between the (original) section signal and the IBH is known as the Intermediate Block Section. When it and the 400yd overlap are clear, the original signals can be cleared as if the train had been accepted up to the IB; because the IBH has its own distant at full braking distance, there's no restriction on clearing the distant at the operating box. In operation, signals would be cleared as far as the IB when TES was received from the box in rear, and the train will then be offered forward, the IB cleared and TES given when it is passing the controlling box.

The 1960 Sectional Appendix shows a signalbox at Norman's Bank, 1 mile 482 yards from Earle's Sidings and 2 miles 1336 yards from Edale. That, I suspect, is what was replaced by EE16; I strongly suspect there is a corresponding one on the down, controlled by Earle's Sidings.

The 1960 Sectional Appendix shows a signalbox at Norman's Bank, 1 mile 482 yards from Earle's Sidings and 2 miles 1336 yards from Edale. That, I suspect, is what was replaced by EE16; I strongly suspect there is a corresponding one on the down, controlled by Earle's Sidings.

KymriskaDraken in post 104007 said:

Sidestick Priority in post 103987 said:

What a great sim, thanks to everyone involved in making it!

A small observation if I may, the UP/DN labeling on the block instruments between New Mills South and New Mills seems to be the wrong way around?

Also, I can't for the life of me cancel the Train on Line indication and return the block instruments to normal after conducting reversing moves from shunt signal PF28 into Peakstone CEMEX. I have cleared the PF 21 signal to get the train in behind the shunt signal in preparation for the reversing move, and given ToL as it enters the DN section between Peak Forest and Great Rocks. The train then does its thing and heads off into the siding. When I try to return the block to normal as per the manual I never seem to get the Block Override Release Given message so the instrument stays locked and cannot be released. Any suggestions?

Many thanks,
SP

You don't need to give TOL. Get a Line Clear if you need to clear PF21, and when the train has reversed cancel the route from PF21 and when it times out you can cancel the Line Clear with the Cancel button on the block instrument. Once the block is at TOL you can't cancel it until a train has passed through the section.

Kev

Is that correct though? I would have thought welwyn would be provided to cancel trains off? You should be able to.

I've noticed that a few of the track circuits around Peak Forest/Great Rocks display oddly, highlighting several areas of the TC when a train is passing over a different piece of the track circuit. See attached screenshot for an example - there's three red pieces at the borders with the non-TC'ed tracks. In addition to TGR1423, I've seen it on TPF4244 (Peak Forest Up Sdgs). I can't find any mention of this unusual behaviour in the manual - is it intentional?

Hello

In the matrix at the top left which lists the boxes and who is controlling them, is "chapel-in-le-firth" correct spelling or not ? Apologies - as the station is "Frith"

Danny252 in post 104102 said:

I've noticed that a few of the track circuits around Peak Forest/Great Rocks display oddly, highlighting several areas of the TC when a train is passing over a different piece of the track circuit. See attached screenshot for an example - there's three red pieces at the borders with the non-TC'ed tracks. In addition to TGR1423, I've seen it on TPF4244 (Peak Forest Up Sdgs). I can't find any mention of this unusual behaviour in the manual - is it intentional?

This happens on some other sims as well, so I think it's a core code issue.

Kev

An IB would often be a replacement for a signalbox. Before the days of track circuits & power operation, signalboxes would sometimes be provided simply to break up a block section, just a home & distant in each direction. Later, boxes that originally had sidings etc might be reduced to that sort of status (especially following Beeching). Eventually the cost of staffing such a box would exceed the cost of installing & maintaining the necessary track circuits, so the 'break section' box would be replaced by an Intermediate Block Home (and its distant) on each line.

I had a bit of congestion at Buxton just now with light engines to and from Great Rocks. To try and allieviate this I ran 0J31 right down to the far end of the run round loop then signalled 0H22 in on top of it. However, 0H22 came to a stand over the points just on the Buxton side of BX22 Signal. I instructed 0H22 to shunt forward but it didn't move, so had to abandon the TT in order for the loco to move and then reinstate the TT when 0H22 was inside clear behind BX45 signal. Is this a bug?


Regards,

Phil.

KymriskaDraken in post 104107 said:

Danny252 in post 104102 said:

I've noticed that a few of the track circuits around Peak Forest/Great Rocks display oddly, highlighting several areas of the TC when a train is passing over a different piece of the track circuit. See attached screenshot for an example - there's three red pieces at the borders with the non-TC'ed tracks. In addition to TGR1423, I've seen it on TPF4244 (Peak Forest Up Sdgs). I can't find any mention of this unusual behaviour in the manual - is it intentional?

This happens on some other sims as well, so I think it's a core code issue.

Kev

Having done a few seconds more thinking, the areas marked red are those that blink white when a signal is selected. However, there must be some other factor, as it doesn't happen in all cases - e.g. it occurs at Buxton on TBX6 for the "blinker" for BX27, but not BX32 which is on the same TC. A few similar TC/signal combinations on Coventry around the Yard also don't display the bug.

Phil-jmw in post 104113 said:

I had a bit of congestion at Buxton just now with light engines to and from Great Rocks. To try and allieviate this I ran 0J31 right down to the far end of the run round loop then signalled 0H22 in on top of it. However, 0H22 came to a stand over the points just on the Buxton side of BX22 Signal. I instructed 0H22 to shunt forward but it didn't move, so had to abandon the TT in order for the loco to move and then reinstate the TT when 0H22 was inside clear behind BX45 signal. Is this a bug?


Regards,

Phil.

The trains are booked to stop for 1 minute at Buxton No 1 Signal Box (roughly where the pointwork is) so perhaps that was the reason.

Kev