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| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 12:16 #160536 | |
Future
19 posts |
Hi all, I am currently trying to work out the arrangements for the attachment (crucially) and detachment of the Plymouth sleeper portion that existed during the early years of FGW until 2006. I have the following worked out thus far: Down 1C99 arrive Plymouth P4 08 (running from where -- Laira or already at Plymouth?) attaches to rear of set and detached 1x Mk3 SLEP 08 shunts Mk3 SLEP to P8 and berths Returns to Laira on 5C99 09+18 Plymouth - LA Up 5A99 19+32 LA - Plymouth arrive Plymouth P8 (berths country end) 1V74 arrives Plymouth P8 London end to form 5V74 to depot 1A40 arrive Plymouth P7 ????? My main questions are: What shunts the Up sleeper portion onto the set -- train loco (as 08 has returned to depot after 5A99) or 08? What are the arrangements for the above with regards to what goes where? Somewhat confused as the SLEP would have to be 'picked up' from the country end as 5V74 would be in front of it which precludes a straight "loco off - pick up coach - set back and off" If the 08 shunts on the Up sleeper portion, does it remain at Plymouth for the Down or go back to Laira in the meantime? Any help much appreciated 83A Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 18:44 #160539 | |
bill_gensheet
1469 posts |
Looking at 2004 WTT, the (then) 1V73 (a2307)/5V73(d0020) is in P5 not P8. Would not be the first WTT with a typo in it. The 08 likely stayed in the station overnight as there were several parcels & mail to shunt in DK2, no workings to or from Laira. Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 19:21 #160541 | |
jc92
3732 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 160539 said:Looking at 2004 WTT, the (then) 1V73 (a2307)/5V73(d0020) is in P5 not P8.Is it the same 08 though? By then EWS operated the mail traffic and FGW had their own 08s at Laira. It would involve a hire in of the EWS Jocko presumably? That's if there still was one and it wasn't done by 67s and PCVs. I suspect the 08 is a FGW loco off laira. Does 5A99/C99 show its timing load as LDS or 08? The jocko could've worked the sleeper down and run back without a schedule. Ditto in reverse in the morning. The attachment to the London end in the evening would be the train loco as it has to detach off the train anyway to get the coach inside. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 15/03/2025 at 19:25 by jc92 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 19:41 #160542 | |
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Future
19 posts |
The June 2005 WTT has 2x 08 trips timed but that doesn't preclude there being more: Both timed as '08TRIP' 5A99 19+32 LA - PLY 5C99 09+18 PLY - LA The main queries now would be whether the 08 stays on after it's dropped off the Up portion and how the train loco picks up the portion if there is a Voyager in front (5A99 arrives P8 @ 19.53 and then 1V74 arrives 'on top' at 23.43 and doesn't leave empty until after the beds have gone 83A Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 19:52 #160543 | |
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jc92
3732 posts |
I suspect the 08 goes back unscheduled (short distance movements don't require a formal schedule in the WTT or trust). Looking at the notes I now have, the sleeper is actually attached at the penzance end so the 08 must do it then go back to LA after. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 15/03/2025 at 19:52 by jc92 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion 15/03/2025 at 21:09 #160547 | |
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Future
19 posts |
Oh right — that would make sense then. So would the sleeper end up being formed SLEP + SLEP + SLEP + RFO + TSO + BFO + SLEP?
83A Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Yesterday at 10:14 #160549 | |
58050
2675 posts |
The best way to get the info about this would be to ask Lazzer as he was a driver based at Plymouth until recently. When I was writing my summer 1990 Plymouth timetable he sent me an e-mail giving extensive details he'd obtained from drivers who were there in BR days & I remember in one exchange he said that he was on the Cl.57 which brought the train into Plymouth from Paddington & there was another Cl.57 at the other end of the train on its way to Mount Gould Jn. I have got the Plymouth station working book for 1990 which is what the timetable was based on along with the Cl.50 loco diagrams for that period. There was also a station pilot which was a Cl.08, but from what Neil mentioned to me it didn't look as if that was used to shunt the stock from Plymouth station to Mount Gould Jn. Two other things to mention is that firstly that timetable hasn't been released as I never got round to finishing yet & the second is I'd say Neil[Lazzer] would be the best person to give you the right answer to your question as he was a Plymouth driver.
Last edited: Yesterday at 11:18 by 58050 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Yesterday at 11:00 #160550 | |
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Future
19 posts |
Thank you all for the replies — much appreciated
83A Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Yesterday at 12:33 #160552 | |
lazzer
642 posts |
58050 in post 160549 said:The best way to get the info about this would be to ask Lazzer as he was a driver based at Plymouth until recently. When I was writing my summer 1990 Plymouth timetable he sent me an e-mail giving extensive details he'd obtained from drivers who were there in BR days & I remember in one exchange he said that he was on the Cl.57 which brought the train into Plymouth from Paddington & there was another Cl.57 at the other end of the train on its way to Mount Gould Jn. I have got the Plymouth station working book for 1990 which is what the timetable was based on along with the Cl.50 loco diagrams for that period. There was also a station pilot which was a Cl.08, but from what Neil mentioned to me it didn't look as if that was used to shunt the stock from Plymouth station to Mount Gould Jn. Two other things to mention is that firstly that timetable hasn't been released as I never got round to finishing yet & the second is I'd say Neil[Lazzer] would be the best person to give you the right answer to your question as he was a Plymouth driver.I would be the person to ask if I'd been at Plymouth during the period we're talking about. Sadly I wasn't there then, so I don't know how they would have done it. If I was still at Plymouth, I could find out for you, but it's a bit tricky now I'm a bit further up the country. :-) Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Yesterday at 12:46 #160553 | |
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JamesN
1625 posts |
SLEPs are and always were together, at the London End of the formation. On the down, the Plymouth portion was detached conveniently off the rear; and the rest of the train continued its journey. It may have been shunted along or to another platform to aid station working (normally to C/E platform 8) On the up, the portion would already be stabled in a platform (again usually C/E platform 8), and the sleeper would arrive from Penzance into another platform. The train engine would detach, shunt over to where the portion is stabled and shunt that onto the head of the train before continuing. The portion being taken ECS to/from Laira was almost always with the 08, and it would depend on requirements whether it stayed at the station between shunts or not. Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Today at 20:16 #160570 | |
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Future
19 posts |
JamesN in post 160553 said:SLEPs are and always were together, at the London End of the formation.Thank you for that but that still leaves the question as to how the train loco would have attached to the SLEP C/E P8 as per the timetable if there was the aforesaid Voyager L/E P8 83A Log in to reply |
| Plymouth sleeper portion Today at 20:50 #160579 | |
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JamesN
1625 posts |
Simplistically, the Voyager wouldn't be there. The platforming in the WTT is rarely 'final' and often doesn't account for factors such as exactly this scenario. I think Bill suggested a re-platforming that should work. Log in to reply |