Cornwall SimSig

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Cornwall SimSig 27/02/2014 at 21:55 #56320
DaveHarries
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1287 posts 		Hi all,

Seeing as we have no SimSig in Cornwall, how about one that covers the main line in Cornwall between Liskeard and Penzance? Something on the lines of North Wales with Absolute Block working involving 9 boxes (Liskeard, Lostwithiel, Par, Truro, Roskeer Junction, St. Erth and Penzance, plus the Newquay branch SBs at Goonbarrow Junction and St. Blazey). There are the branch lines for Looe and Falmouth and the freight routes for Parkandillack and others. Also the possibility of optional boxes (according to sim options set by user) for Burngullow Junction and St. Austell (both now under control of Par).

Just a thought: could be done according to box diagrams where available.
Dave
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Cornwall SimSig 27/02/2014 at 23:10 #56321
Sam Tugwell
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494 posts 		Cornwall discussed before quite a few times.

Here (by me! )
http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=12&id=1818&Itemid=0

Also here
http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=12&id=19183&Itemid=0

Partially here
http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=12&id=1514&Itemid=0&view=topic

More here
http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=12&id=1069&Itemid=0&view=topic


Seems to have been well received. Hopefully another one that will exist some day.
"Signalman Exeter"
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Cornwall SimSig 28/02/2014 at 12:34 #56335
Zoe
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258 posts 		" said:
Also the possibility of optional boxes (according to sim options set by user) for Burngullow Junction and St. Austell (both now under control of Par).

If you are going back to that era then you should aso include St Germans and Largin. Drump Lane would also still have existed although I believe that in the years before it closed it was permanently switched out.
Last edited: 28/02/2014 at 12:39 by Zoe
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Cornwall SimSig 28/02/2014 at 14:01 #56339
Stephen Fulcher
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2088 posts 		Numerous other ground frames no longer there as well for clay workings.
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:30 #59482
bugali
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78 posts 		I have spent about 2 weeks making a "mock up" in TXT format using the SIMSIGv2 font. if any one is interested, i will put it up on the forum for members to have a look at. it has a new type of "Absolute Block," witch would need a lot of custom coding, but represents the western block and it's operations. (I will put a guide to the block up as well as the TXT file if any one wants)

Alistair
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:39 #59483
Late Turn
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699 posts 		How is AB on the former Western Region any different in principle to anywhere else? Historically, there were differences between the signalling regs between regions and 'big four' companies, but even that wouldn't really affect the operation of Simsig's representation, surely?
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:43 #59484
Stephen Fulcher
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2088 posts 		Wired massively different, but the instruments work on the same principle.
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:45 #59485
bugali
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78 posts 		in the Western Region the signalman douse not have to call attention before sending 2-1 and the signalman in the previous box douse not have to send 2-1 back to the first signalman, this is only applicable in 2 track block sections. (this is what happens in Exeter West Box) it may have changed by Railtrack or Network rail but i'm not shore.

Alistair B
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:53 #59486
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Where is the mock up?
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:54 #59487
Stephen Fulcher
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2088 posts 		They do have to call attention the same as everywhere else nowadays. I think operating methods were standardised in BR days?

You are referring to "slack working" which of course never happens.
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:58 #59488
bugali
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78 posts 		headshot119: do u mean where as in; the upload or the area it covers?
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 18:58 #59489
headshot119
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4869 posts 		The upload.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:01 #59490
Late Turn
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699 posts 		" said:
They do have to call attention the same as everywhere else nowadays. I think operating methods were standardised in BR days?

You are referring to "slack working" which of course never happens.

Not sure when exactly the change happened, but it's been consistent for many years now. Can't see it making a difference here though - no bell signals are exchanged in Simsig anyway, or at least they don't need to be (unless they're exchanged in the message window, but that doesn't affect the operation of the sim).

I'm sure some boxes still work slack, but I really don't see the point - certainly not risking continued employment for!
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:01 #59491
bugali
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78 posts 		here it is



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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:05 #59492
peterb
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452 posts 		" said:
here it is
It's just a text file with a lot of symbols.
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:08 #59493
bugali
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78 posts 		sorry i forgot to put in instructions on how to see it.

1) open the file.
2) copy the content and paste it into a notepad .
3) go to format, font and select SIMSIGv2
3) make shore u have Word Warp of
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:12 #59494
peterb
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452 posts 		That works now, thanks.
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:16 #59495
bugali
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78 posts 		no problem, if any one has any questions just ask
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 19:30 #59496
DaveHarries
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1287 posts 		A good effort on the mock-up. A couple of points however:

1. On the Newquay branch the next box towards Newquay, after St. Blazey, is at Goonbarrow Junction which works AB with St. Blazey. Drivers on the Newquay services have to obtain a token from the signalman at Goonbarrow Junction to proceed. Goonbarrow Junction, for anyone who doesn't know, is just on the Par side of the level crossing at Bugle.

2. Inclusion of the Falmouth branch would also be a good idea as Truro SB does control the passing loop, and its associated signals, at Penryn.

3. I am not sure about the locations of P75 & P75R. Although I don't deny they may exist I have a book - the Cornwall one from the Past & Present series - which says that, after the closure of the box at St. Germans (06-May-1973) the equipment from the box was "transferred to a building on the down platform which now acts as the interface between the Pluymouth panel and Liskeard signal box". I accept, however, that you may know more than I do through, say, insider knowledge.

I may try and make the mock-up look SimSig-ish with coloured sigs, black background, etc. and then upload it. Will share it here if I do.

I also have an idea that, for sims with mechanical signalboxes, a mock-up lever frame could be disoplayed and you can then use the "levers" for changing the points and sigs. Might be fun but I am not sure how it would be developed. Same style of lever frame though as when working a GF.

Dave

(PS: The signals in my avatar are the down starters at Lostwithiel)
Last edited: 24/04/2014 at 20:13 by DaveHarries
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Cornwall SimSig 24/04/2014 at 22:26 #59501
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		Simsig was never intended to be a simulator for AB sections. It's designed to simulate IECC which is does faithfully. Several of the devs, including me, have replicated sections of the AB workings using SimSig's capabilities but each is implementation is different.

While it is, of course, up to Geoff to decide what support he includes, in previous discussions he ruled out any move to including more AB-related features in the core code so you aren't likely to see anything like you describe on Simsig at least in the near future.

IF AB signalling is what you are after, there are simulators available on t'internet that do replicate lever frames and AB working. I pretty sure they've been mentioned before on the forum and I sure a quick google search will find them.
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Cornwall SimSig 25/04/2014 at 06:47 #59518
lazzer
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636 posts 		" said:
1. On the Newquay branch the next box towards Newquay, after St. Blazey, is at Goonbarrow Junction which works AB with St. Blazey. Drivers on the Newquay services have to obtain a token from the signalman at Goonbarrow Junction to proceed. Goonbarrow Junction, for anyone who doesn't know, is just on the Par side of the level crossing at Bugle.
If I could just expand on this a little, the driver of a down service departs Par station and stops in the old platform at St. Blazey (just around the corner) to collect the token for the section between St. Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction. This token is coloured red.

The train then proceeds up the hill through Luxulyan, and stops at Goonbarrow Junction signalbox. The signaller comes out, takes the red token from the driver, and exchanges it with the token for the section from Goonbarrow Junction to Newquay. This token is coloured green.

The whole thing runs in reverse on the journey back, the driver exchanging green for red at Goonbarrow Junction, and handing the red one back at St. Blazey. The crossing you refer to at Bugle is called Molinnis, and has a somewhat annoying speed restriction of 5mph in the up direction.

I think that just about covers that bit.
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Cornwall SimSig 25/04/2014 at 10:38 #59535
jc92
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3701 posts 		" said:
They do have to call attention the same as everywhere else nowadays. I think operating methods were standardised in BR days?

You are referring to "slack working" which of course never happens.
That's not slack working. The GWR and latterly the BR (WR) block regulations required 2-1 to be sent without call attention or acknowledgement. I'm not sure when this was abolished and standardised, but it still stood true in the 1960 block book. As Alistair says you can this at Exeter west but it isn't a local instruction or slack working, its standard regs.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Cornwall SimSig 25/04/2014 at 11:54 #59542
Forest Pines
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525 posts 		" said:
" said:
1. On the Newquay branch the next box towards Newquay, after St. Blazey, is at Goonbarrow Junction which works AB with St. Blazey. Drivers on the Newquay services have to obtain a token from the signalman at Goonbarrow Junction to proceed. Goonbarrow Junction, for anyone who doesn't know, is just on the Par side of the level crossing at Bugle.
If I could just expand on this a little, the driver of a down service departs Par station and stops in the old platform at St. Blazey (just around the corner) to collect the token for the section between St. Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction. This token is coloured red.
So St Blazey to Goonbarrow Jn isn't AB in other words.
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Cornwall SimSig 25/04/2014 at 11:58 #59543
Forest Pines
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525 posts 		" said:
The GWR and latterly the BR (WR) block regulations required 2-1 to be sent without call attention or acknowledgement. I'm not sure when this was abolished and standardised, but it still stood true in the 1960 block book. As Alistair says you can this at Exeter west but it isn't a local instruction or slack working, its standard regs.
Was a distinction made between Train Out of Section and Obstruction Removed? (I'm assuming both were 2-1 in the 1960 book, although I've not read that version myself)

(edited to correct my quote tags)
Last edited: 25/04/2014 at 11:59 by Forest Pines
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Cornwall SimSig 25/04/2014 at 12:13 #59544
lazzer
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636 posts 		" said:
" said:
" said:
1. On the Newquay branch the next box towards Newquay, after St. Blazey, is at Goonbarrow Junction which works AB with St. Blazey. Drivers on the Newquay services have to obtain a token from the signalman at Goonbarrow Junction to proceed. Goonbarrow Junction, for anyone who doesn't know, is just on the Par side of the level crossing at Bugle.
If I could just expand on this a little, the driver of a down service departs Par station and stops in the old platform at St. Blazey (just around the corner) to collect the token for the section between St. Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction. This token is coloured red.
So St Blazey to Goonbarrow Jn isn't AB in other words.

No - the only true AB is from Par to St. Blazey's section signal at the bottom of the hill. Goonbarrow Junction SB has associated semaphore signals, which have to be pulled off for you, but you still have to be in possession of the token to proceed.
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